Oklahoma State vs Adams State

MSSU is a bit short but regardless, I believe Adams would have been a top 5 team at the D1 meet. But, a few of their guys would've been out because of age. But, let's not start that argument again.

This would have been a very close race. Most years Adams would be top 5. This year it would have been top 2. The are 3-5 Adams teams that would have won the DI meet. The 1992 Adams teams is one of the best cross country teams ever assembled in a U.S. college---just behind those sick, rule-breaking UTEP teams of the death penalty era.

Look, I'm a D2 fan so I'm pulling for Adams in a case like this, but the course was clearly at least 200m short, probably closer to 300.

My old college team ran on that course for regionals and they ran way faster than their 8k Pr paces. It's cross country and times don't really matter, but Joplin is much faster than Louisville.

But if Adams were D1, they would be one of the most consistent top teams over the last decade.

The 5K course at MSSU is around 250m short. Not sure how short the 10K is, but MSSU has always been short for all races. MSSU measures from the center line, not from the shortest route like everyone else does. I think it's fair to say the 10K course is over a minute short.

D2 was watered down this year team wise. Schools like Western, GVSU, Chico were all down. Mines was probably the only school that was up.

Western smashed this exact same team (minus Batt) last year. Remember, Stanford beat Adams earlier this year. Would have Stanford beaten them today? Definitely not, but i'm just sayin'.

"I'll put up $100k to see OSU run against Adams State, just like I did for War Admiral to run against my horse Seabiscuit".

Adams would have beat the crap out of Western this past spring had they raced XC style. They have a team of sub 14:10 guys who ran damn well in XC this fall. They are a solid group.

You are dumb. XC style? Cross country is a fall sport. Western raped them. This Adams team is very very good, but like I said, they appear to be better than they are due to D2 being weaker this year.

Last year Adams was "essentially" the same squad. Western manhandled them. Last year Grand Valley was very very good. GVSU would have beaten this years mines team. Shoot, last years Chico team might have too.

d2rep wrote:

D2 was watered down this year team wise. Schools like Western, GVSU, Chico were all down. Mines was probably the only school that was up.

Western smashed this exact same team (minus Batt) last year. Remember, Stanford beat Adams earlier this year. Would have Stanford beaten them today? Definitely not, but i'm just sayin'.

Really poor reasoning here. Adams raced Stanford on their home course, on a day Stanford ran great, and it was close. Stanford was a great team every race they ran this year except for one.

I raced the D2 course, and yes, it is closer to 6 miles. But you can't really compare it to Louisville. Joplin has long stretches of 90 and 180 degree turns that I expect make it run slower than Louisville. Slower pace-wise, not overall time.

Adams is a strong team, they deserve a lot of respect. Remember that '92 team was the first year they were in D2 after competing in the NAIA. Sometimes division is irrelevant, good teams are just good.

It also seems to me that the depth of D2 isn't as good this year as compared to recent years. That said, I still believe Adams would be a top 5 school for D1 this year, based mostly on how they did at the Stanford meet. They gave Stanford all they could handle that day, and Stanford is clearly a top 5 school.............except for yesterday.

Though Western did "smash" them (not exactly the word i'd use, but close enough), Western had arguably the best team in the nation across all divisions. Haebe, Pennel, Proctor, Goodman and Blackman were all sick. However, not one of them returned this year. If they were all back, this race would've been much more competitive between those two teams because everyone on Adams improved dramatically this year and Western was already good.

Adams State is really good - they would beat a lot of Division I teams, but with all due respect, I don't think it would even be close against OSU. Cross country data is awfully hard to quantify when there are no head-to-head matchups, but data from the 2012 track season shows just how much deeper the Cowboys are. Adams State's top two guys were basically as good as OK State's sixth and seventh guys in terms of track credentials. I realize that comparing XC teams via track data is flawed at best, but it does say something, I think. Adams state runs at Stanford and Mt. Sac in the spring, so these DII guys had the same opportunities to run fast.

All of these track times were reported to the TFRRS system during the 2012 season with the exception of Manilafasha, who did not run track this past year, it seems.

Mecheso 13:34/28:16

Farrell 13:15

Kipchirchir 13:46

Manilafasha 14:24 in 2010

Moskowitz 3:44

Erassa 3:43/13:47

Clarkson 8:45 steeple/29:18

Batt 3:45/13:53

Stevens 14:08/8:46 steeple

Daniels 3:45/13:59

Sanchez 3:55/14:11

Luterbach 4:03 (1500)

2chainz wrote:

MSSU is a bit short but regardless, I believe Adams would have been a top 5 team at the D1 meet. But, a few of their guys would've been out because of age. But, let's not start that argument again.

Are they really that old? According to the first post, 4 out of their top 5 are sophomores. Did they take a bunch of years off or something?

the mean streets of marin wrote:

2chainz wrote:

MSSU is a bit short but regardless, I believe Adams would have been a top 5 team at the D1 meet. But, a few of their guys would've been out because of age. But, let's not start that argument again.

Are they really that old? According to the first post, 4 out of their top 5 are sophomores. Did they take a bunch of years off or something?

Yeah they are.

Batt is older but only one or two years than a sophomore (born Feb. 28, 1991).

Daniels graduated high school in 2006, so he is turning 25 sometime in this school year. He went to a college in Texas for a semester then joined the military, that is how he has eligibility left. He is grandfathered in under the old rules of D2, because he went to a college when the old rules were in effect.

Stevens is a red-shirt sophomore. Which is very common especially among Western and Adams. Born June, 1991.

Luterbach is a red-shirt sophomore as well. Born Oct, 1991.

So the only two that are older are their top two and Batt is only one year older than what a red-shirt sophomore would be. But I will say that Stevens and Luterbach are on the older end of their grade, but the both graduated high school in 2010.

In other words, no, they aren't that old. Maybe old for being sophomores, but not old by college standards. As for Daniels, he is 25ish. But being in the military for 4 years is a disadvantage.

Either way though, this is a very good team. Probably not the best team in the country, but still a top 5 team.

Try minus Batt, Sanchez, Luterbach, and Godinez. Oh wait, this "exact same team" is made up of over half of a different team than last year.

i truely believe adams is way better then they look on paper. they get basically one chance to run fast at sealevel during track which makes it difficult. the rest of their races are at altitude. also luterbach was a 3 time state champion in wisconsin and ran like ~910 in highschool. the 403 for their 5 guy is quite deceiving. he was hurt all track season.

Adams State...how many of the starters are foreignersf?