What could I run for a half marathon after xc season is over (without training specifically for the distance at all)?

You should be able to run it at your 4 mile tempo pace.

I don't know whether you're trolling or being serious, but I don't think there's any way that's gonna happen...

Same shit different distance

Tempo pace is defined as a pace you could hold for a 60 minute race. So if you ran 6:11 pace for a 4 mile tempo, then you should be able to run 6:20 pace for a half marathon.

First, sorry your xc season has not (yet) lived up to your expectations. There's several weeks to go, no? Give yourself a chance--don't count yourself out yet! You and your coach have already gotten you in great strength shape, and satisfying performances may still be in the offing.

Second, let me urge you to organize future summer prep periods in Summer of Malmo fashion (perhaps suing hills on some of the quality stuff). [Many threads on this already--use the search function or Google.] The mix of speeds, including a portion at mile pace or faster, may give you more encouraging early- and mid-season races in future xc seasons.

Third, because of the volume you've been running (in long runs and overall), the *distance* of a half should be no problem; your only question is "how fast?"

a. Because many of your training sessions feature a negative progression, I'd advise you to do an actual warmup (several minutes' easy running and some pickups) before the race. With the volume you've been running this season, the extra 1.5-2km (total) in your warmup won't drain your tank for the 21km race to follow; in fact, they'll make it feel easier overall.

b. You should start the race with something around a 7:00/mile *effort*--but chances are the actual time will be somewhat faster, because of the warmup and adrenalin. Nevertheless, it should *feel* pretty much "seven minute-y."

c. You can then gradually pick up the *effort* (lots of certified races don't have really-accurate markers for their *intermediate* distances, so you need to go by feel more than split times) over the remainder of the race, just as you've gradually picked up the pace on so many of your training runs.

d. Assuming a flattish course for the half, I'd expect something under 90min (6:52/mi) for your total time; but I can't predict how much under. Others will be better at that than I am.

**In line with my remarks (above) about warmup: for one of your remaining CROSS races, you could try running an easy 10-15min (before breakfast, say) on the morning of the race, then later (at the race) running your normal pre-race warmup with the team.

I knew a guy who did something like that and it really seemed to help: the morning bit wasn't fatiguing at all, of course, but it did seem to help him when he later was loosening up for the actual race. He just needed a little more easy stuff to be "ready to go" on race day; with your stated training pattern, you may be similar.

"...(perhaps using hills on some of the quality stuff)."

Nerts.

Don't be too discouraged. The speed should come later in the season as you start to cut back a bit on mileage and do some more sharpening.

Maybe 1:24 to 1:27...really hard to say based on workouts. If you had some 4/6/8 mile race times, I could give you a good guess.

my half pace is usually about 10-15 seconds faster than what I run for 6 mile tempos but I'm a racer. That would put you around 6:15 for the half.

give us a 5K/10K time and that would help along with overall weekly mileage

Lease: Thanks for the in-depth response. I'm definitely not giving up on xc yet as I'm running at chile pepper this weekend and hoping to do better there, and also hoping to make the squad to run at our conference meet at the end of the month. But still, after that I really want to try a half just to see what I can do since I want to take advantage of the strength I have right now. It should definitely be after my seaon ends...unless my team accomplishes their dream of going to nationals and I somehow am among the top 7, in which case I'd be more than happy to abandon any half-marathoning plans:) But that is an extremely unlikely situation, so otherwise I want to do the half. I have definitely read about the Summer of Malmo and other similar approaches to summer training before and agree that it's good to keep doing some faster stuff in the summer, especially for me since I'm naturally much more slow-twitch/long distance oriented; however, this past summer I was injured half the summer and then ahd to build back really slowly, and training was hardly going well enough run even close to the mileage and paces I was used to for just easy runs, much less do any speedwork. Somehow, things turned around dramatically around when I got back to school, thank goodness, but I'm still devoid of speed haha. I've actually run this particular half twice before, both times the day after the state meet in HS, so yes it is definitely about shooting for a faster time, and yes the course is flat. I ran 1:29 flat when I ran it 2 years ago, so I was hoping for something more like 1:27 or better, but really have no idea what I could do. And I would definitely plan on doing a brief warm-up just like you described.

To the guy who said tempo pace is supposed to be the pace we could sustain for an hour: I've heard that, but we do run our tempos fairly hard (certainly not all out, but probably harder than 1 hour race pace...although I guess I don't really know that since I don't really run longer races). So my HM pace might be slower than that would predict, especially since it's gonna take me a lot longer than an hour to finish 13.1 miles. 6:20 pace does sound a little more reasonable/possible though...definitely a stretch since I was guessing I'd be somewhere around the 6:30 to 6:40 pace range, but I'd LOVE to be able to run that fast:) I guess you never know.

To those who asked about PR's, I've never raced a 10k, and my 5k PR is from HS, but it's 18:33. I feel that I should be capable of much faster than that in a good race now, but we haven't (and won't) run a 5k this year in xc and I was injured all last year. I have an old 4 mile PR of 24:35 from HS, but my last tempo was nearly that fast now so obviously I should be in better shape than that. And I did a 1:29 half a couple years ago in HS, didn't treat it seriously at all but did put forth a good effort.

Sorry for the long post!

SMJO wrote:

You should be able to run it at your 4 mile tempo pace.

I agree with this.

82 minutes for the half.

XC runner girl wrote:

6 x 1k on grass w/60sec. recovery averaging 3:46

That is way too short of recovery for a 5k, especially for someone lacking speed and racing below par. At least equal rest would be better, or better yet jog 1k's between in 7 1/2 minutes and run 4 or 5 of them. Even Bekele doesn't take 1 minute rests.

Thanks for additional info, OP.

If you averaged 6:30 a mile, that would bring you in right around 1:25 for 13.1. That "7:00 *effort*" that I recommended for your first mile would probably put you somewhere in the 6:40s; gradually picking up from there should get you averaging something around 6:30, no problem. I'd say that 1:25 is a reasonable target, understanding that a faster time is a real possibility (and assuming that the field wouldn't be too crowded, because you'd be passing people the whole way).

*Good luck at Chile Pepper!

*Please keep us posted on your progress!--especially, please bump the thread if you actually end up running the half. Your input could be really helpful (and interesting).

--lease

J.R. wrote:

SMJO wrote:

You should be able to run it at your 4 mile tempo pace.

I agree with this.

82 minutes for the half.

XC runner girl wrote:

6 x 1k on grass w/60sec. recovery averaging 3:46

That is way too short of recovery for a 5k, especially for someone lacking speed and racing below par. At least equal rest would be better, or better yet jog 1k's between in 7 1/2 minutes and run 4 or 5 of them. Even Bekele doesn't take 1 minute rests.

Is this a serious post?

[/quote]

That is way too short of recovery for a 5k, especially for someone lacking speed and racing below par. At least equal rest would be better, or better yet jog 1k's between in 7 1/2 minutes and run 4 or 5 of them. Even Bekele doesn't take 1 minute rests.[/quote]

This was several weeks ago, and my coach isn't planning his workouts around me as a maybe #9 or 10 runner on the team, but rather around the top 5 who will be needing to peak in mid November, so up until pretty much last week we were still essentially doing base training. Since then though we had another 1k workout where we just did 4 with 2 to 3 minutes rest at a harder pace and I averaged 3:36 (and according to my Gramin the loop my coach had us run on was a little longer than 1k). I do need more speed work, but I trust my coach that he will start to incorporate more as we head toward the end of the season.

Good baseline goal would be to break 85 minutes (6:30 pace).

I would not be surprised if the Garmin gives you a slightly biased distance because the measured spot is randomly distributed around your real location and unless it is going inside curves the distance will be less than the measured distance. This effect should not be too big, however.

Factoid No. 356 wrote:

Good baseline goal would be to break 85 minutes (6:30 pace).

I agree with this. I think around 1:25 would be a great time to shoot for.

Go out the first 3 miles in around 6:40 and then pick up the pace to 6:30 until 10 miles. At that point, you can see what you have left the last 5k.

Why would someone run a half so tentatively? Running 30 seconds per mile slower than potential for the first miles is ridiculous racing advice.

Run the first mile a little slower until fully warmed up and then get a move on. Who cares if the last few miles are tougher. It's a half, not a full.

SMJO wrote:

Why would someone run a half so tentatively? Running 30 seconds per mile slower than potential for the first miles is ridiculous racing advice.

Run the first mile a little slower until fully warmed up and then get a move on. Who cares if the last few miles are tougher. It's a half, not a full.

You think she has the potential to run a half at 6:10 pace? What in her initial post makes you think this?

I think 6:30s would be a good goal pace so that puts the first few miles just 10 seconds slow. That is how I approach longer races.