Running sub-11 100m -- Bet

Goughy wrote:

Also, as a thought exercise, lets say I currently run a 12.5 (not saying a do but for the purposes of this let's assume I do) with no training, weak hamstrings, ordinary fitness and average flexibility.

What would be realistic to take off that time with serious training?

No.

For a healthy and still-growing person (such as a high school aged male), dropping about 1 second would be a VERY big improvement.

For someone who has already matured, has a history of hamstring issues, and would have to drop 1.5 seconds? Not going to happen.

If you were in 11.5 shape without training, and didn't have a history of hamstring issues (or were in your teens or maybe early 20's), I'd say you could have a decent shot. As a fully grown adult with injury concerns in one of the most important muscle groups you'll be working on, it's simply not going to happen.

Of course, if the person doing the timing for this challenge is very generous, anything could happen. Not that uncommon that I've seen people be off by even half a second (or more) before.

kartelite wrote:

I think the point was this. And yes I'm quoting Wikipedia:

In endurance sports such as cycling and running, hitting the wall or the bonk describes a condition caused by the depletion of glycogen stores in the liver and muscles, which manifests itself by sudden fatigue and loss of energy.

They are exactly the same thing, but distance runners aren't fast enough normally to notice the energy falloff if they sprint.

Bonk in a marathon is caused by an energy substrate (glycogen) that can no longer produce ATP fast enough to maintain pace, and the next available substrate (fat glycolysis) can't produce ATP at a fast enough rate to make up the difference. So you slow down to the pace that you CAN produce total ATP at (ignoring RPE, blood lactate, and such).

In sprinting, when energy from creatine phosphate declines by half by 8-10 seconds after starting, and the athlete cannot produce the lost ATP by glycolytic means, the athlete slows down to the pace that he CAN produce ATP at.

They are the same thing. The only thing that's different is what the energy substrates are. Remember "the bear on your back" in 400 and 800?

Oh? wrote:

No.

For a healthy and still-growing person (such as a high school aged male), dropping about 1 second would be a VERY big improvement.

For someone who has already matured, has a history of hamstring issues, and would have to drop 1.5 seconds? Not going to happen.

If you were in 11.5 shape without training, and didn't have a history of hamstring issues (or were in your teens or maybe early 20's), I'd say you could have a decent shot. As a fully grown adult with injury concerns in one of the most important muscle groups you'll be working on, it's simply not going to happen.

Of course, if the person doing the timing for this challenge is very generous, anything could happen. Not that uncommon that I've seen people be off by even half a second (or more) before.

Maurice Greene went from 10.43 in high school to 9.79 eventually. Andre de Grasse went from 10.9 in basketball shoes to 9.92 in the world championships in 3 years. And these people were in top athletic shape to begin with.

If you have someone in top shape, who has been in a sprinting program and been doing standard drills, the leverage for continued improvement is less and probably limited to a few tenths or less. But if you have someone that is around 13.0/30.0, and does not have a base of what the Jamaicans call aerobic work like 6X300 or 10X200 at 80% speed, there is a significant amount of performance that can be gained by simply getting into shape for sprinting--and being in shape for distance is not being in shape for sprinting. If someone has been doing mileage of more than 10 mpw and leg strength or jumping ability is impacted by aerobic mileage, more conditioning for sprinting can be gained by simply cutting out the aerobic running and spending time in the gym.

If you haven't been doing drills or sprint workouts like 60's or 150's, you can gain more from doing these if you haven't been doing them. You can gain significantly from just getting the technique and mechanics right.

If you have weak hamstrings, is this due to a lack of strength work or too much mileage load? These things can be improved in the gym.

Whether all of these things combined can get you to where you want to be depends quite a bit on your talent level, but they can certainly get you faster than you were.

I know I'm not part of this conversation, but I would like to make things a little more clear. It's misleading to say that "hitting the wall" applies to the 100m. What actually happens is the central nervous system gets tired of firing so many muscles at full power. That's the reason no human has yet succeeded at maintaining maximum speed beyond 80 meters, and most of us would be lucky to be holding on at 60. You can experience this first hand right here at your computer by alternately tapping two fingers on the same hand. After 6 or 7 seconds you'll start to slow down. But when you stop, complete recovery occurs in less than 5 seconds. Also, creating phosphate can be restored much, MUCH faster than glycogen, so again, that is a poor comparison.

So yes, an untrained person sprinting 100 meters would accelerate up till around 30 meters, hold maximum speed till 40, then gradually slow till around 70, where they would fall apart and rapidly decelerate toward the finish line. But that's completely different from hitting the wall, as from a creatine perspective, hitting the wall would not occur till around 30 seconds, when creatine stores are greatly decreased. Note that the average speed of the 200m world record is basically the same as the 100m world record at 10.4 meters/second, even though it takes more than 8-10 seconds to race. The 400m on the other hand, averages 9.3 meters/second. Fwiw, studies show that the 400m will deplete 85% of the stored creatine from the muscles.

I know I may be late in this conversation and I apologize for that, but in this thread you want to run a sub 11 100m time. This is reasonable but in your case I fear not you said you don't have much track experience and as one of the fastest in my division which is D2 and running a 11.1 and I've been doing track for over 7 years (since I was 11) I don't think you can do this I wish you the best of luck and hope your progress is going well. The only reason why I don't think you can accomplish this is from talking to people that actually run sub 11 one of which running a 10.52, Now if you aren't already running a sub 12 then you have little chance to running a sub 11 it is close to impossible. I applaud you for trying, and if you do then I would love to see a example run of you running under 12 seconds. Best of luck just my own opinion on the matter, I only feel so strongly about this because I don't even feel like I could run a sub 11 and I'm already at 11.1! Maybe this is why I am so blunt and don't believe you can do this but even at college level a time under 11 is a competitive time in the country! So for such the long thread and I'm sorry if I come on rude it's just I don't think it is remotely possible with someone of your background.

I am sorry for my previous message as I see it was rude and uncalled for I do truly believe you can achieve this but it will not just take 1 year it will take many at least 4 years of serious wanting to puck everyday training. I hope you the best of luck and I'm sorry again for my rude message before.

If what you state about yourself is actually true there is almost no chance you would run sub 12 - let alone sub 11.

I would assume the bet stipulates that you have to run the sub 11 FAT (automatic timing)

If not then you have a chance (just get some 12 year old kid to time you and press the stopwatch a second early like they did for your "12.3")

You are old - fat - injured and could never sprint in the first place! I would bet you $1000 straight up that you couldn't break 12 with real timing.

I agree with the post above. If you never ran 12 before back when you were young? How could you run that now as a old man? If anything you are losing speed not gaining speed. Sorry but a sub 11 is reserved for the most genetically gifted athletes to produce that amount of power and speed.

lmao its hilarious how everyone thinks they have sub 12 100m speed.

The only distance runners that I know have sub 12 speed are sub 1:54 800m runners and sub 4:10 milers. And some of them don't even have this speed.

HSprinter wrote:

I am sorry for my previous message as I see it was rude and uncalled for I do truly believe you can achieve this but it will not just take 1 year it will take many at least 4 years of serious wanting to puck everyday training. I hope you the best of luck and I'm sorry again for my rude message before.

Idiot, the post was 5 years ago. You're way too late. OP is long gone and the bet is a distant memory.

most football and basketball players arent even going under 12