Who is the best 1500m/Miler ever?

Qoqw wrote:

socalcush wrote:

herb elliott. strange but true: i'm undefeated against el g (2-0). obviously no one can say that about elliott in his open career...

There wasn't anyone who beat El G twice and never lost to him.

obviously this is debatable--otherwise there'd be no need for a thread or the question--but:

elliott and el g both have the same amount of olympic golds in the 1500, which is the event this thread is about. at roughly the same age, when el g was stumbling through his first olympic final, elliott was winning gold in a world record time. won't count world champs because elliott didn't have them. elliott had 5 years (in an era when it was difficult to compete longer than that for financial reasons) of complete dominance never seen before, nor seen again in the 1500/mile. he set world records in the events, lowering each by 2.5 seconds or more (in the mile). he beat everyone. he got beat by NO ONE. pre-epo. pre-entourage/personal rabbits/etc. what else do you want?

and, if you can dig up el g's results from summer '94, you will see his 19 y/o butt got beat by a bozo like me twice (obviously, no bozos beat elliott, though i could probably take him now), which as far as i know are the only times i raced him.

that's my story and i'm sticking to it...

elliot may have been a 3'31 guy back in '60, which is impressive, but he didn't race in era of africans, so in time, his exploits will be devalued as not having the best group of 1500 guys in the planet not being developed/around at the time

still, he beat whoever who was around, which is all he coud ask for

incidentally, i get a sneaky feeling snell wouda been a quicker 1500 guy ( albeit set mile wr & not 1500, just because he hardly ran 1500s )

i think his 800wr speed wouda got him a 3'30, possibly enough to edge elliott if they'd met at their peaks

I would say El G is the greatest miler even though he only won one gold medal in the mile. El G was the best in the world for nearly a decade and to this day, no one has come close to his record. However, I would not say he was the greatest middle distance runner, that title would probably go to Coe, Elliot, Keno or Morcelli. A case could even be made for Lagat if he wins the London 5k.

ventolin^3 wrote:

coe's 2 golds are devalued as they were both in boycott games

'80 - he didn't run against wessinhage/hudak who both had fasters pbs than him that year

a demotivated scott wouda likely been focused knowing he wouda been going to games

all these guys wouda been going into the 1500 fresh & with no rounds of 800 in their legs

with all that, i'd rate coe's chances of 1500 gold in '80 as no better than 50/50

Once again, Ventolin shows us all that he is not on speaking terms with reality:

o.O wrote:

Lagat finished .26 seconds off the record and never beat ELG in a sub 3:29 effort.

Kiplagat ran in a different era.

That's wrong, Lagat has beaten El Guerrouj 2003 in Zürich in 3:27.

for sure in 2004...

Rose tinted spectacles wrote:

In 2004 all the mile world record holders as far back as Bannister met up for a special commemorative dinner. Ovett was the only person who didn't attend. They asked all the record holders there, as well as other athletic journalists, who they thought was the greatest miler of them all, and the athlete with the most votes was Coe. This was obviously in the May before EL G finally won his Olympic gold, so maybe the result would have been different a few months later. But I think the verdict of your fellow peers is probably the most important.

Don't ask athletes! They normally don't know the history of their sport very well. (Maybe Steve Cram is an exception).

Coe has to be the greatest middle distance runner of all time (who could challenge him here? Snell? Ryun? Ovett? Cram? I don't think so. But for just the 1500m/Mile El Guerrouj's overall record is too strong. How many seasons at the top? How many sub-3:30 times? And his championship record also isn't so bad with a gold and a silver at the olympics (and a fall with a pretty good chance for gold) as well as four world outdoor titles and two world indoor titles. He has to be the Nr. 1, no doubt.

Don't forget Herb Elliott. He had no competition and very short career.

socalcush wrote:

Qoqw wrote:

There wasn't anyone who beat El G twice and never lost to him.

and, if you can dig up el g's results from summer '94, you will see his 19 y/o butt got beat by a bozo like me twice (obviously, no bozos beat elliott, though i could probably take him now), which as far as i know are the only times i raced him.

that's my story and i'm sticking to it...

Marcus O'Sullivan in fact beat El Guerrouj in there only race, and Atoi Boru had a 3-1 wining record against El Guerrouj. What are you laking?

FIXED

Nappy Roots wrote:

Exclusively 1500m?

1. El G

2. Morceli

3. Jim R.

4. Lagat

5. ????

6. PROFIT

...what are you TALKING...

lol lol lol lol wrote:Once again, Ventolin shows us all that he is not on speaking terms with reality:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OYv_bmhGYGQ

moron

where are wessinghage & hudak in that race ?

& since when was 3'32.19 faster than 3'31.58 or 3'31.96 ???

said88 wrote:

...what are you TALKING...

about? look up berlin and brussels '94. berlin was rabbited by mark dailey and marcus o'sullivan, won by niyongabo (3:31.18), 11th place bozo (3:38.03), 13th place el g (3:38.39). can't remember brussels exactly, though i think the times were similar (3:38-3:39). hard to find on the internet, though it used to be part of some unofficial website devoted to el g. 2 years later i (re)tired; el g ran 10 seconds faster. hmmm....

socal cush wrote:

said88 wrote:

...what are you TALKING...

about? look up berlin and brussels '94. berlin was rabbited by mark dailey and marcus o'sullivan, won by niyongabo (3:31.18), 11th place bozo (3:38.03), 13th place el g (3:38.39). can't remember brussels exactly, though i think the times were similar (3:38-3:39). hard to find on the internet, though it used to be part of some unofficial website devoted to el g. 2 years later i (re)tired; el g ran 10 seconds faster. hmmm....

So, you are talking about Andrey Bulkovskiy? Why not just writing this? But for sure thats up to you. El Guerrouj has beaten Bulkovskiy in 1997 in Paris. So still I don't see your point.

Coe hands down.

He ran 11.3 for the last 100m in of the Europa Cup 800m ('81). That is fastest last 100m split ever recorded for the 800m. He would have destroyed El G in a championship 1500m.

He ran a 45.5 split. That would make the 400m final in most country's national champs.

Also consider he didn't train @ altitude like El G and he didn't run as much mileage as El G. If he had - might have extended his career a bit longer.

And how many times did either Wessinghage or Hudak ever beat Coe?I'll give you a hint....it rhymes with "hero."

ventolin^3 wrote:

lol lol lol lol wrote:Once again, Ventolin shows us all that he is not on speaking terms with reality:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OYv_bmhGYGQ

moron

where are wessinghage & hudak in that race ?

& since when was 3'32.19 faster than 3'31.58 or 3'31.96 ???

You heard it here! wrote:He ran 11.3 for the last 100m in of the Europa Cup 800m ('81). That is fastest last 100m split ever recorded for the 800m.

in a piss-poor 1'47

take about that kinda finish in a 1'45, then that's worth mentioning

He ran a 45.5 split

when ???

Also consider he didn't train @ altitude like El G

his problem

and he didn't run as much mileage as El G

again

his problem

Morceli, Lagat, El G - drugs drugs drugs. You people are living in a beautiful prancing unicorn and happy elf world of fantasy if you believe otherwise. They cannot be included on ANY list of the "greatest."

Coe, well... his talent can't be disputed, but cold and narcissistic. He always struck me as being an uptight and very unpleasant person. Also alleged to have used PEDs.

For sheer other-wordly talent and power and impressiveness (at his best) it has to be Ryun.

Should be "other-worldly."