Who's the best? Not considering accomplishments outside of these two events, 800m and 5000m accomplishments don't matter.
El G? 4 WC golds at 1500m, 2 World Indoor golds at 1500m, 1 Olympic gold medal at 1500m and one silver. World records in 1500m and Mile including the longest standing Mile record since we've kept track of it.
Herb Elliott? World record in the mile and 1500m at 20, 1 Gold medal and world record in Rome 1960.
Who else?
I didn't think that it was debatable that EL G was the greatest
Undoubtedly El G.
El G deserves the status. But imo, Morceli beats him in OG/WC settings, in similarity to Ngeny outkicking him.
Exclusively 1500m?
1. El G
2. Morceli
3. Jim R.
4. Lagat
5. ????
Jim Ryun was capable of 3:24 in 1967.
El G, Lagat, and Morceli are pathetic drug cheats.
Morcelli
He was dominant for years. He set the World Record. He won Olympic and WC golds. He beat El G when El G should have beat him.
El Guerrouj is arguably the best ever when it comes to athletes in any track discipline longer than 800m.
Yep. Gotta be El Guerrouj. In addition to his stellar World Championships/Olympics medal record, and his in season remarkable dominance, he also has this:
The King of the Mile wrote:
Yep. Gotta be El Guerrouj. In addition to his stellar World Championships/Olympics medal record, and his in season remarkable dominance, he also has this:
http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=3950496
You know what's a stellar record? Elliot never being beaten over the 1500/mile distance in his senior career.
Trollist wrote:
El Guerrouj is arguably the most drugged ever when it comes to athletes in any track discipline longer than 800m.
agreed
right up there with flojo
I'm afraid that this could lead to several pages of random flame wars between Ventolin and random posters but on what basis do you/he say Ryun was capable of 3:24? Certainly he was a huge outlier in his era and could have undoubtably gone faster in today's athletics world, but I don't see how one can be so confident that an athlete could be 8+ seconds better than their 800 PR. Not necessarily a criticism, just curious: I'm not foolish enough to believe that only athletes competing within the last couple decades are the GOATs and would like to see how a number of old-school runners (Peter Snell?) would stack up to today's competitors.
he ran the last 1200 in his 3'33.1 in 2'46.6 & that included a slow lap of 59 or 60 in it
he only really kicked hard in last 300
that 2'46.6 is likely true finish as i've seen quoted 2'47.7 as his last 1200, but that virtually certainly is the time for bailey the leader at 300m - ryun's finish in 3'33.1 - ryun may have been ~ 8m behind bailey at 300m ( not on vid , but it can be surmised as he was long way behind at 100m & even more at 400m
http://www.britishpathe.com/video/jim-ryuns-world-record/query/jim+ryun
)
2'46.6 is 3'38.25 pace
now, obviously 1200m isn't 1500m, but i don't know how much drafting he got as he runs wide a lot in that vid & a short keino isn't going to provide much cover for a ~ 6'2 guy, & a 59 or 60s lap in that 1200 shows plenty of uneveness + main effort looked in last 300m
i really don't think that he wouda been much slower than extrapolated 3'28.25 at perfect, even pace for that - maybe 3'29.0 - 3'29.5
knock off 3.75s for dirt/synthetic at 1s/lap ->3'25.25- 3'25.75
( you can see the poor state of lane 1 in this ( not surprise as presumed highlight of meet, it wouda been one of last races on :
))
then factor in that is was run in brutal 95F in smog capital of western world with worst air pollution & at very least you gotta knock 1s off that if run in 70f in nice, "clean" air of say oslo/stockholm/hengelo/etc
that gets you you 3'24
he is also quoted as having run a 47 aged 17y, obviously again dirt track, meaning he musta been good for 46 at 20y, his peak
that's into the 45s on a synthetic track
lines off fit i'd offer
46.0 with
3'26.0 ->1'41.37
3'25.0 ->1'41.09
3'24.0 ->1'40.81
45.5 with
3'26.0 ->1'40.89
3'25.0 ->1'40.61
3'24.0 ->1'40.33
45.0 with
3'26.0 ->1'40.42
3'25.0 ->1'40.14
3'24.0 ->1'39.86
that is why i reckon low-1'40 was fair value for him in that form
ventolin^3 wrote:2'46.6 is 3'38.25 pace
typo
3'28.25 pace
Clearly Hicham.
800m coach234 wrote:
Morcelli
He was dominant for years. He set the World Record. He won Olympic and WC golds. He beat El G when El G should have beat him.
Because El G fell.
The only way it's not ElG is if he was in fact on drugs.
wasn't there an interview or something with El G, Ryun, Coe, etc., where they agreed that Ryun was the most talented.
El G was undoubtedly the most successful, however.
Herb Elliot got 1 major medal and ran for only 5 years.
Now he set the world record in the Olympic final and I believe that is the only time that has ever happened or ever will in the 1500.
I'll stick with the pre-PED types: Elliot, Ryun, Ovett, Coe.