Ohio State women win second outdoor big ten title

Congrats to the Buckeye women, and their coaches, on the win!

Where would he go?

I'm pretty sure that it is now 3 years in a row that the Bucks have scored 0 distance points in the conference meet. The coach has got to be on the hot seat.

distance isn't what ohio state cares about obviously, there is no hot seat when the money is sprint/jumps/throws...life is probably pretty easy for him

Let's not pretend that OSU doesn't get in distance talent, they definitely do. So it's not a case that they don't care to get the talent, its what happens to it while they're in Columbus.

Interestingly, the meet was awash in great marks, almost certainly the best conference meet ever across all events. The one area where top marks and depth were lacking, at least by comparison, was the women's 800+. 10:12 is a good steeple, especially for 3rd, but not great; 16:14 is a strong run, but not much on the NCAA list and the 10,000 went too slow early to get a good mark. The 800 was won in a moderate time, while the 1500 might have had the best mark.

In this environment, not scoring a point is even more noticeable.

"Let's not pretend that OSU doesn't get in distance talent, they definitely do. So it's not a case that they don't care to get the talent, its what happens to it while they're in Columbus."

Agreed

Maybe they should combine programs. Make Karen the Director. Pay the money to hire Hadsell away from Toledo and make him Head Cross Country. Make Ed the Associate Head Track of both.

No way Kevin leaves Toledo. I think he makes like $80k with bonuses, a car, a phone and golf memberships. Plus his track team was runnerup indoor and outdoor at the MAC. I don't think he would leave. But, it is the Ohio State. Never know.

In the past this was not true, as clearly zero money was put into distance. Neal came in and got some very strong performances out of people like Jennewine, Birmingham, and Williams for the year he had her. None of these girls would have been considered big time recruits. But it is clear that Dennis has allowed given him some resources to with over the past few years, as OSU has signed Wagner, Thomas, and Hilton. Now, these ladies have only run one season of XC a piece, and all three qualified to Nationals in their only chance, so that is good. But their performances on the track have not been strong. Wagner got down to 16:28 indoors this year but blew up at the B1G meet, then didn't run outdoors. Thomas and Williams have not looked strong on the track thus far. Those three plus Brink should form a strong core group in XC next year and hopefully one of Berger, Willman, or Aughenbaugh can fill in the 5 slot (or they could nab another nice recruit).

Needless to say, the team has shown flashes, and the team appearance a few years ago at Nationals was promising. Thee fact they haven't been back since, despite aquiring better talent, along with the lack of any scoring at the B1G meets, is a huge problem. With the program clearly committing resources to the distance area and with Ohio being such a strong state for producing women's distance runners, I would think the job will attract some very strong candidates should Dennis kick Neal to the curb.

Anyone who is from the state of Ohio knows that all the OSU coaches have to do is make one phone call to the best athletes in the state, and they most likely will commit. Ohio as a state is one of the best and deepest talent pools in all the country. There is no reason that Ohio State shouldn't get all the top distance talent in the state, and then be able to recruit all over the country if they want to. So there is absolutely no reason that an Ohio State cc/track program should not have a chance to be successful. Maybe one of the reasons the women's distance side has not kept pace with the track side is the negative recruiting done by the coach, and the bad-mouthing of other programs (especially the MAC). There is no need for that and stuff like that comes back to haunt you. I know of two top distance recruits that specifically did not attend OSU due to the negative statements made against other programs. Being positive and respectful is always the best way to sell a program.

I don't know why anyone would want to run distance at OSU. Columbus is like one big paved parking lot. Inside the city limits the only trails are at Antrim Park (where OSU xc/distance does repeats around the lake). Anywhere else is pretty far driving distance and last I looked track/xc athletes don't have a lot of gas money. A lot of the distance recruits probably get depressed by this pathetic situation and end up hurt or drunk (examples abound of both).

OSU fan......get your facts straight.

First off, michelle thomas did not qualify for nationals and williams is not even on the roster anymore.....so do some research next time. ALSO, theres seems to be a trend of girls performing well for maybe a season or two and then mysteriously disappearing. I'm going to take a shot in the dark and say it's due to injuries. He's clearly doing something wrong, there is no reason that distance should not be scoring points with the amount of talent that is brought in. It has nothing to doing with Dennis giving him or not giving him resources....

Coach Neal has the women's program up and running at a level it has NEVER been. He may not be perfect but it's hard to overcome years upon years of no tradition, no expectation, no resources, no commitment, no culture, etc. This is clearly evident in other programs with far more accomplished coaches than Chris ( Warner, purdue; Drenth, Mch St; etc).

This thread is about the OSU women WINNING BACK TO BACK TITLES. Let's not pretend we can do it better than their STAFF. Everyone doubted Karen Dennis when she was hired and now she has proven that she knows the formula and has the right staff in place to get the job done.

They won. Coach Neal is part of the reason. Enough said.

Go Bucks.

Thanks Chris. Now go back to doing nothing.

And what would that level be? ground zero? I'll give every other coach on that staff credit for their win but he is the last person who deserves another ring.

Relax wrote:

This thread is about the OSU women WINNING BACK TO BACK TITLES. Let's not pretend we can do it better than their STAFF. Everyone doubted Karen Dennis when she was hired and now she has proven that she knows the formula and has the right staff in place to get the job done.

They won. Coach Neal is part of the reason. Enough said.

Yeah. At some point, the bottom line has to be the bottom line. At most "big"-conference schools, the prime goal for coaches is to win conference titles--that's what they're hired to do. (Yes, most of their ADs would gladly trade a non-winning Nationals trophy for a win at the conference meet.)

Of course we're distance partisans, and would like to see distance runners improve when they get to college. But that ain't so easy, especially with women, and *individual* success/failure stories don't say much, one way or the other, about a *program*.

In any case, it looks like Coach Dennis's overall staff has done its job. Congrats to teh Ohio State University.

Relax wrote:

Everyone doubted Karen Dennis when she was hired and now she has proven that she knows the formula and has the right staff in place to get the job done.

Go Bucks.

Here's where you're wrong. Karen cleaned up a huge pile of crap that Russ left behind after years of neglect. She got her athletes in and they've been WILDLY successful. Shoot, Christina Manning will probably be on the Olympic team! The athletes that Neal brought in have scored 0 points at the indoor/outdoor B1G meets over the course of the last 3 years. As people have pointed out, its not due to lack of talent. Every year he brings in top talent, they just don't improve.

As good as Manning is, making the 100h team is going to be tough, as there are so many top gals.