racing off of no speed work?

I think you can race yourself into shape to an extent, but you probably won't acheive any really great results without doing some interval work. After all you need to train your body to be able to handle faster paces if you want to run faster races. I suggest to include some interval work, but maybe cut back on the intensity just a bit if hard interval sessions are burning you out. Fartlek running is also a good interval substitute, and it is usually much easier to motivate oneself to do. Lydiard used to race his runners off of entirely aerobic work in the early parts of the season, and the races would be decent, but he would start to include interval sessions later and that's when the times would really drop.

Mark Nenow

Lot's of mileage with hills and at a varied pace based on how he felt. Never planned hard running just did it whenever, sometimes many runs in a row.

Benji Durden turned himself into a 2:09 'thoner by running big miles and racing nearly every weekend as speedwork.

Ask the Farm Team runners about Jason Lunn's workouts. No speed work since August. Overdistance and tempo runs only. Set a pr in the mile in October with a 3:57 and a week later tied the course record in a road mile in DC and beat Sullivan with a 3:59. So, it looks like you can do it without speed work.

Some may argue that Lunn could make about anything work well. He ran a 4:10 in hs on 35 miles a week. Now, in addition to his training he works a full time job and tutors athletes.

I cannot help thinking that what we know about elite athletes is what they WANT us to know. Call me cynical but could these training reports be tall tales? I was once told by a 221 marathoner(and before I get torn to shreds, I do not think a 221 marathoner is an elite runner. Im just using this as an example) that he ran 45 miles a week. Too bad I knew people who trained with him and had a different story to tell.

I see this as believable. If a runner does some drills or something for the leg speed coordination, he doesn't need the high lactate workouts in order to improve. One axiom that the old guys used in the day was "Speed kills".

I was running sub-2:20 marathons and comparable performances in shorter distances off of approximately NO interval training (one or two sessions PER YEAR), VERY little racing (just a few races at any distance each year), and one "tempo" run of about five or six miles every week or so. I never came close to that level when I was doing lots of interval training. All the while, I was reading books and articles by coaches, physiologists, and various running gurus who insisted that you can't run competitive races without interval training.

I don't mean to suggest that my training was easy. It wasn't. I did lots of very solid distance runs, and a number of intense sessions "running" in water. But conventional interval training, for me, just produced injuries and slow races.

Is it perhaps because the interval sessions that you were doing were too hard for your body to adapt properly? In college I had a coach who would make us run intervals that left everyone either gasping for air on the ground or tossin' our lunch by the track. Those intervals were too hard for us to properly adapt and caused poor race performances. Under another coach who had me complete intervals that were difficult, but not extreme, I had much better race results, and I felt much fresher. I think many people have bad experiences with interval training because the workouts are too extreme.

It's possible to run pretty well with a good tempo run of

4-6 miles and a short hill workout per week.

Throw in your long run and fill in the blanks with easier days.

I've seen people run PR's (30 flat on the road) without any speedwork. I've ran well of of no speedwork and only miles (not an enormous amount). In fact, I ran some of my best races in the summer doing just miles. I think if you put in a decent base, you'll be able to run fast with or without speedwork. Even in longer track races to a certain extent.

Worked well for Lunn again at Stanford on Friday.

I had a miserable first collegiate XC season because the interval workouts that our team did TWICE a week were way too stressful... We'd do a HARD, EXTREME workout that left us all sick on monday and I'd still feel like crap on Wednesday when it was time to do the next murderous workout. And the exact same thing every week... no tempo runs, no hills...I can't see myself EVER wanting to do another interval workout.

(I have not read the earlier responses)

But I think your question needs a spanish or african answer because you are thinking long-term with that attitude and not burn out. (Most american training formulas tend to fry their talent on speed and forget about what could have been eaten tommorrow).

Strength work is not as limited as your speed...

I would suggest you try periodizing your training.

Spend a long time just building your base, nothing

faster than LT Pace (if that) and do striders twice

a week. Don't race at all for at least a few months

of this. When you start to really feel the itch to

race, do so, but don't race too often (once every 2

to 3 weeks) and start to throw in some interval

workouts once a week when you are not racing. Structure

the interval workouts so that you know you can comfortably

complete them - they should only require 90% effort,

save the last 10% for the races. (Daniels points out

that people often do their interval workouts too fast -

for optimal benefits over the long haul, the workouts

should be well within your ability, but gradually increase

in speed and duration over time).

Also, don't be afraid to cut a workout short when you

know you are done - if you planned to do 6x800 but the

4th one was hard and the 5th one was really hard, don't

bother with the 6th (conversely, if you still feel good

after 6, don't be afraid to throw in a 7th). Lydiard

was a big fan of having runners determine the duration

and pace of their interval workouts based on how they

feel. You know when you are done, and pushing past this

on a regular basis is counterproductive - save it for the

races.

Periodization and good planning!! I agree long runner...Food for thought! I found a cure, running most all my base work and early season intervals on grass --> golf course. Then during the racing season hitting only one or maybe two sessions per week on the track and staying on the grass for all other intervals, milage and/or tempo runs etc. I found the mother load and became injury free for the 1st time in years. "A golf course with fairways like putting greens". Just stay off the greens they get pissed! I also get one message per week during the base weeks and two per week when I increase the interval work, just legs!! Leading up to major races I'll get three per week...If he or she is good, they will find and help the problem areas and you'll notice a difference. Good luck.

Ed Whitlock.

I know a masters runner putting out 32:30 10kms who does just mileage and lotsa tempo. Doesn't plan for the tempo, just does it whenever it feels good. Like Mark Nenow he might go a few days in a row with hard efforts, then take a day off and race. Races almost every weekend from May to Sept.

I think to race well you need to race often. I'm not a guy who could ever train hard for weeks at a spell and then race. I needed to get in that race environment and gut it out, get used to the pain, and the more races I ran the better my performances. I was mainly a 5km-10km and XC guy in college but I'd race everything from 600m and longer indoors and 1500m and up outside. I still think some of teh best training for 5km is racing a bunch of 1500 and 3000 and for the 10km and HM race a lot of 5kms. Hell, race whenever you can.

lame & slow runner wrote:

Does anyone know of a elite runner who never stepped on a track or ran overly hard during the week but used races as speed training with good results?

Amby Burfoot, Boston winner and 4th (I think) in the OT marathon.

Like a lot of other guys who are almost entirely slow-twitch, Burfoot did not need (and did not benefit from) faster work. Frequent racing provided just about all the "speed" training he needed.

By contrast, Joe Henderson (who popularized LSD running) ran his fastest-ever marathon the first time he ran the race...a few months after he'd gotten burned out on interval training and switched to all-distance running, but a) before he geared down to ~8:00/mile in his distance runs, and b) before he lost the strength/efficiency that his faster running had built up. (And also c) before his all-slow training caused him some crippling injuries--just as mine did to me.)

Runners with natural speed (i.e. a signficant percentage of fast-twitch muscle) should (practically) *never* have an all-slow phase in their training; and most runners, even distance runners, have some fast twitch.

The few runners (like Amby, or Bob Deines) with approximately zero fast-twitch should (almost) never go fast in training. They seem to come up with good races off of training that consists almost entirely of slow distance *and hard races*.

Good luck.