5:00 mile and 400 times? Help please.

try a classic 24 x 200 with 200m rest at slighly faster than mile pace (I did 36-37s as prep for my 4:57.) For me, a classic shuffler with a 30 year aerobic base, running fast has been the best preparation.

And I have been doing Canova hill sprints on my easy days - 5 x 12 second full speed runs with 90 seconds walking rest. Those two things will increase your speed.

A classic indicator workout is 10x400 with 100 meter jog rest. If you can hit that at 74-75 you should be in 5 minute mile shape.

Wow! Lots of good help here. I consider myself, after 40 years of running (mostly as a marathon specialist) a student of the sport, but this quest for speed has me stymied. So thanks all...

Just got back from the track where I managed an all-out :67.1 so I think I'm getting there.

I also do Pete McGills' speed drills fairly regularly now.

Some of you are clearly speedsters who have different needs than I (:60 female, etc.)

Looks like there are quite a few of us in this quest together! Let's keep this going.

I looked at the 5th Ave mile results and wondered what the course is like. Seems like some wicked fast times! I know the comp is really good, but...

Hey toivo,

Good job on the 67. You ARE getting there, as you say.

A friend of mine (who also wants to run sub 5) was saying that one should also be able to run a 5k faster than 18 minutes. Hmmm...

similar boat wrote:

Hey toivo,

Good job on the 67. You ARE getting there, as you say.

A friend of mine (who also wants to run sub 5) was saying that one should also be able to run a 5k faster than 18 minutes. Hmmm...

For a runner w/o much speed, sure, but tons of high school kids can break 5 before they can run sub 18 5k, assuming they have even average speed.

I'm not speedy by any means, but my FR year h.s. PRs were :59 for 400, 4:53 for the mile, and 18:38 for xc 5k. I felt like I could've gone considerably faster in the mile too, to be honest, in a better set up racing situation. (I had to double/triple at every meet).

similar boat wrote:

Hey toivo,

Good job on the 67. You ARE getting there, as you say.

A friend of mine (who also wants to run sub 5) was saying that one should also be able to run a 5k faster than 18 minutes. Hmmm...

High School Coaches Are Stupid wrote:For a runner w/o much speed, sure, but tons of high school kids can break 5 before they can run sub 18 5k, assuming they have even average speed.

I'm not speedy by any means, but my FR year h.s. PRs were :59 for 400, 4:53 for the mile, and 18:38 for xc 5k. I felt like I could've gone considerably faster in the mile too, to be honest, in a better set up racing situation. (I had to double/triple at every meet).

You're probably right, for young HS runners. For older, Masters runners without a whole lot of speed I think sub-18 5K might be a pre-requisite. My 5K PR time (track 5K, set two weeks before I ran the 4:55 1500) is 18:21. So there's another datapoint.

Yeah, I think it does matter what age one is at. I ran 17:59 last year at 54, but only 5:17 mile.

I'll try to maintain endurance, but work on the "stamina" type stuff more (did 6 X 800 in 2:45 the other day and will try to get those times down a bit.)

Keep in mind: "stride length plus rate = speed."

Unless you have decent (sub-62) speed, you had better be in 17:10 or better shape for 5K if you plan to break 5:00. If you can't run 17:10 you'd better be at 2:13 or better for 800.

Tip: don't waste time on 400's at 72. Run 10x400 with 90s rec. at whatever your current mile fitness is. They will come down with fitness. As a master I started with doing them in 77 (about 4:55 1500 fitness) and when I ran my PR of 4:21 (1500) a few years later I was doing them in 68-69. But I also ran the 800 in 2:06, so I was well-balanced for speed.

What do you run your tempo runs in?

I ran a sub 5 mile in 9th grade at age 14. In a couple of years I will be 49, and that year my goal is going to be to make an attempt at breaking 5:00. I really want to be able to say I ran 5:00 miles 35 years apart. Tough getting old, but this is pretty much the last running goal I have on the bucket list.

I am not sure I can do it, as I haven't run a mile for time in at least 15 years. I did do a 5:30 goofing around on a track last year.

Anyway, this thread is really helpful.

My thought is us old guys have to come at it from an endurance and race smarts perspective, rather than from a speed perspective. I feel like I have to do some intervals at maybe 72 pace just so a fast pace feels comfortable. I suspect I'll start as lame as doing some 200m repeats in 36 seconds. Once those get feeling good, I'll move to 300m repeats at the same pace. Once I can do say 8 x 400m at 72 pace, I think I'll be ready.

The other workout I have in mind is to slowly build what I can do at 75 pace. First try it might be 400m. Then 600m. Once I can do 1200m at 75 pace I am probably ready.

Good luck to you.

toivo wrote:

Just for laughs, at 55, I've decided to really go for one last sub-5:00 mile. It may be impossible...I haven't done it since 47.

So, I'm wondering what I should try to get down to for a flat-out 400-- :67?

...and, how about the classic 8-10 X 400? What average time would indicate that I am ready for a sub-5?

I think when I ran 4:57 the best I could muster for an all out 400 was around 65.

I could do 12 X 400 in 76-78 with a 400 meter jog without too much difficulty though.

I was coming down from marathon training though, so I had a lot of endurance and less speed.

Tempos were anything from steady ten-milers (working from 6:40 miles to sub-6:10) to 6x1 mile (from 6:00 down to low 5:30's w/2min.). My "reference" tempo was a four-mile course I ran around 24:00 initially and got down to 22:05 in a race-like effort (didn't run a lot of 5 or 10K's, used the 4 mile as a hard aerobic effort). I also finished a lot of easier/medium runs with a tempo mile or two, often on hilly courses.I should add that I was running 1500 as fast and the 800 faster in my mid-40's than I was in HS or college. Certainly I was training more consistently, with more relevant speed work and fewer injuries.

RodT wrote:

What do you run your tempo runs in?

What is your 200 meter time this year?