Why should a husband/boyfriend ever buy an actual diamond when alternative is there?

A realistic alternative to the diamond is moissanite. It is the second hardest gemstone in the world. It has the characteristic of refracting light twice , and as a result , has more " fire " and greater brilliance than a diamond.

It doesn't degrade or get cloudy over time , and is a favorite of the Hollywood red carpet.

More info is available at

http://www.moissanite.com

Because of tradition , diamonds are probably here to stay , but moissanite is an impressive stone.

Fort Knox wrote:

I don't think you quite grasp what it means to say that a currency is based upon gold.

The fact that gold's price changes so much with economic conditions should make that clear.

What did a dollar bill originally stand for? What could you originally trade if for? It's not the case now, but what is the concept of the dollar based on? You know as I that the dollar comes from gold, even if it isn't still tradeable for that.

And in more modern times, why do we still keep our bullion depository if it means nothing in terms of currency? Why does the federal reserve still contain tons and tons of gold? My point from the beginning is that gold is and for a long time will be useful in a pinch for a substitute for money, whereas diamonds, especially the slivers that go into jewelry have no value other than what DeBeers assigns it.

I bought my wife a huge cz when we got engaged. Other women went crazy over it.

I just bought it as a place holder. I then got a real diamond that was way more than 10 times the price. (maybe I got a cheap cz who knows)

My wife loves the real one as well and women go crazy over it.

Both rings got great reactions. But my woman is happy and I don't mind spending the money. It was worth every penny. Plus I view it as a part of my commitment to her.

Many women are dumb, superficial, bitches. The sooner you realize that the better. It's all a game. Life.

Dumb mother begets dumb son, dumb a$$. Ho ho ho.

Sorry.... wrote:

And in more modern times, why do we still keep our bullion depository if it means nothing in terms of currency? Why does the federal reserve still contain tons and tons of gold? My point from the beginning is that gold is and for a long time will be useful in a pinch for a substitute for money, whereas diamonds, especially the slivers that go into jewelry have no value other than what DeBeers assigns it.

Actually there have been a number of interesting articles recently about what has been happening to the world's reserves of gold, if someone knows what I'm talking about and could post them that would be pretty cool.

Things are worth what people are willing to pay for them. The dollar was originally based on the gold standard, but today we could just as easily trade our cash for any commodity -- silver, oil, frozen concentrated orange juice (Trading Places was a great movie), stocks, or baseball trading cards. There are some precious metals like gold, silver, platinum, diamond, etc., that have a high social value. High-quality titanium is expensive because we use it in road bikes, medical equipment, and so on. Diamond has a value because we like to wear it. The diamond cartel gets a lot of bad press, but it isn't very different to see a "Diamonds Are Forever" commercial than it is to see a "Got Milk?" commercial or a "Plastics Make it Happen" commercial. All of these products have a value in our society that companies try to enhance. There were certainly many German Jews who took their most expensive jewelry (often diamonds) with them when they fled Germany to use as currency when they got to wherever they were going. DeBeers doesn't assign a value to diamonds any more than the American Dairy Association assigns a value to milk -- they may artificially inflate the demand for it, but at what point is it artificial if it's ingrained in our culture? Is the recent increase in the price of gold an artificial rise, or a cultural one?

Money is

1. Uniform

2. Transportable

3. Universally accepted

It is the relative changes in #3 that results in price changes. #1 and #2 are a given. If people all of a sudden believe other people will believe gold is useless except in some industrial applications, the price will plunge, probably to well below the price of its real utility.

US dollar bills used to be basically warehouse receipts for gold - you could turn them in for gold at $35/oz. So both the supply of dollars and the price of gold was fixed.

I was in HK 15yrs ago when they had a thing on TV about gold. A young woman was buying gold jewellry. "Gold is a good investment - it holds its value, even when the economy is bad". As if time deposits at HSBC do not.....

Gold is like all financial instruments - metamarkets are the norm (vs coal). The price is based on the perception of the likelihood that another buyer will coming along i.e. the price is a bet that there will be a price tomorrow. It has nothing to do with its utility (unlike coal).

True in general, and a good post, but one of the biggest problems with economics is the definition of utility :)

I think people DO obtain a utility from precious metals and diamonds -- otherwise they would never buy jewelry for such exorbitant prices and the markets for those materials would crash.

Coal also has a price based on the perception that another buyer will come along. This is true of all commodities. (One complication is if the commodity has an expiration date, its value may fluctuate with its age, but let's ignore that for now). There is certainly an options market for oil -- that's one of the reasons why its price fluctuates so wildly, and why certain airlines have lower prices than others when the price of oil is high (they try to purchase options when the price is low). For example, look at the "hedging fuel" section here:

Although Southwest is a company that actually uses the fuel that they purchase the options for, the presence of an options market shows that there are people willing to bet on whether the price of fuel will rise or fall in the future. Just like gold.

I'm not trying to say it's one thing or the other -- just that anything that has a value has a market for it, and anything with a value has a utility. The real question that you're trying to answer is, what is the liquidity of an item based on? Is gold our most liquid asset? This is a question that reflects its supply, demand, the ability to transport it, the rate of consumption... There have been many times and places when gold has not been a societies' most liquid asset (notable examples include salt in some historical African societies, seashells in others -- here's a neat wikipedia article:

).

One difference between gold and putting your money in a bank is that gold withstands some of the effects of inflation. You can't print more gold. But you can mine more, and countries (Russia?) can try to sell their reserves on the open market and cause a drop in prices. I don't know very much about inflation so I'll stop talking now.

Where did you buy your ring ? As a result of this thread I am in the market.

Dr. Phil wrote:

Cubic zirconium is virtually indistingushable from diamond and costs so much less. Diamonds are so overpriced at it is - why expect spouse or mate to waste your savings on artificially inflated commodity? is a sham

Right there with you brother. My wife has the real thing (diamonds in her engagement ring and even some on the wedding band), but that's just because I knew nothing when I bought them 20+ years ago. Had I really known, Cubic Zirconia would have been the order of the day, and she would have gone along with it too.

You can buy beautiful Cubic Zirconia sets for as little as $35. Just CRAZY to go throw several thousand at rings when you don't need to.

So you buy the CZ. Are you going to tell people (or let them believe)it is a real diamond and live a lie the rest of your life. Or are you going to tell them it is a phony? What else would you deceive about? Flaggy, there is no middle ground here.

runner_pucci wrote:

yes this is the most ridiculous overpriced gem stone in existence. For millennia it had no real value...

Actually, they used to be incredibly precious, because large diamond mines hadn't been discovered. They were mostly found in river beds, and they were considered strictly for aristocrats. Many of the famous colored diamonds are of this type.

In terms of scarcity, diamonds are really like semiprecious stones. 130 million carats are produced worldwide each year.

No Name wrote:

tmoth - I can tell you we would not buy a phony diamond and try to impress people to make them believe it is real. I'd do without rather than trick or deceive someone. Sometimes one deceit leads to another, where does it stop?

When irresponsible, irrational behavior becomes socially required, then deception is a valid means of self-preservation. None of my friends have spent less than $25k on their engagement rings. Could I afford it? I suppose it depends on your definition of afford. I wouldn't need to finance it, but I wouldn't consider it prudent.

I'm tempted to say that it's a bad sign if a woman insists on a big rock, but they've been so conditioned that I'm willing to accept it as a predictably anomalous desire from an otherwise sensible person.

Alternatively, if it's not the money per se that bothers you, you could offer to spend the same amount on her, but just not all on a diamond. A lot of women would probably be perfectly happy to take a 2 ct CZ and a pile of beautiful Yurman jewelry to go with it.

Night Runner wrote:

So you buy the CZ. Are you going to tell people (or let them believe)it is a real diamond and live a lie the rest of your life. Or are you going to tell them it is a phony? What else would you deceive about? Flaggy, there is no middle ground here.

Well, we already have the rings, so we'll just keep them. BUT, to answer your question, first of all anyone who asks if they are diamonds is rude. Second of all, if they did and it was in fact Cubic Zirconia, I would tell them the truth. I'm actually more embarrassed now that I spent what I did on them...a LOT for me at the time.

My fiance wants a synthetic diamond & I'm all for it. Here's a couple things we've found.

Cubic zirconium cloud up in a couple years.

Synthetic diamonds are killing the natural diamond industry & when we go to jewelers they try talking us into a natural, cz, or moissanite. Also I don't believe they come in white & in the rare occasion they do then they cost the same as natural.

Another ? wrote:

Why buy a BMW when you could drive a Fiat?

Breathe My Wake vs. Fix It Again, Tony?

There was an interesting story about the seedy underbelly of the diamond trade in Wired Magazine a while back.

http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/11.09/diamond.html

I would call this story a "recommended read" for anyone buying an engagement ring. The diamond industry is a monopoly controlled by DeBeers and they manipulate the market like any monopoly in order to maximize profits. There should be a lower cost, conflict free, higher quality synthetic alternate to natural diamonds but those who have tried have been squashed by those who stand to lose.

Buying a precious stone for your fiancee can be a beautiful symbol of your commitment. However, there are alternatives that couples should consider before buying a new diamond.

1. Use a family diamond. This can be as simple as reusing an old ring but you can also buy a new ring and setting for an old diamond.

2. Buy a "used" diamond. The jewelry store salesperson will tell you that a diamond is an investment. It is in fact a very poor investment. You will lose half of your money if you try to resell. Sometimes you can sign an agreement with a fine jeweler that will buy back the diamond at near full price should you ever care to sell. If you want a used diamond the best place to shop is at a jewelry reseller, which are usually associated with pawn shops. You should, at the very least, visit one to see how little your ring will be worth in a few years time.

3. Use a diamond alternative. There are a ton of beautiful stones and things like CZ that are better priced, hold their value and will appeal to your loved one. Princess Diana/Kate Middleton's ring is a sapphire accented with smaller diamonds.

Using any one of these suggestions could save you thousands of dollars. Let's say that you have the money to spend. If you buy a cheaper alternative you can spend the rest of the money making your proposal unforgettable. In a fine jewelry store a typical engagement ring might cost $5000. A used ring might be half that and you could use the difference to pay for a surprise weekend trip to Paris where you could propose from the top of the Eiffel Tower. She will say yes and she will never forget.

De Beers slogan is "A Diamond is Forever". "Diamonds Are Forever" is a 40 year old Jill St. John movie.

Go with your girlfriend and dig a Herkimer Diamond for yourself. Then go to a jewler and let your gf work with them designing the cut and setting. A shared experience a beautiful ring and an endearing story about camping out together while digging for 'Her Diamond' that will last a lifetime.

http://www.herkimercrystalsonline.com/jewl_ring_p_16x13_8_01.shtml