50 year old trying to run 4:30. Help!

This is quite a reach, but, do you go to the University of New Hampshire?

I notice the Oldish Guy never repsonds to the question of what his recent times are for 5K.

I see these types of runners on the forum all the time. They constantly duck and weave about what their recent race times are while announcing how they are expecting to run some world class times.

Oldish Guy!!! What are your recent race times????

Otherwise put this subject to bed.

No ducking. I put in my first post that my recent 5k RRs are around 17 minutes. My best in the last year was a 16:40 on the dot. My only speed work for the last few (many) years, however, has been repeats at 5k pace. Mile repeats, usually with equal rests, on the bike trail.

When I first thought of trying to run 4:30 I seriously didn't think it would be anything close to world class. Maybe I'll try for 4:30 in the 1600, instead of the mile..!

I didn't think this thread would get this kind of response. Thanks for all the advice! Even before I do the speedwork, I gotta do a mile TT to see what paces I should be running.

Thanks again, I got a lot of posts to read

Oldish guy needs some advice wrote:

Hey guys,

I just turned 50 in July.

Any other good workouts for a geezer?

____________________________________________________

Whoopee!

What a tool!

Imagine running a six minute mile at the age of 78.

This is a claim of bob delquemonte. And some how i tend to believe him. You would say yeah yeah that could be broken but know this is a 185 pound senior. He is also in weight lifting and that stuff.

Second on the kilometer reps i secondly want to say don't do them, do 300 meter reps or 200 meter reps as you get near fitness for a mile maybe even do 15 x 200 at somewhere between 1500 meter and 3000 meter pace. But keep of the long anaerobic work. It is not a must. And personally i don't have seen any of that 5 pace work seeing in action for seniors. If you like aerobic interval training go for 4 x 1 mile at 10 km pace. But even that would not be optimally i think. These sessions are just so much more of a stress one the immune system that starts to go down from age around 48. That it would burn you out most likely. Anaerobic threshold doesn't seem to give that if you do it short.

Actually if you where to chose to the immuno suppression of a long steady run at 70% of vo2max (1.5 - 2 hours) or an anaerobic threshold run of 20' - 30' at 80% - 85% of max you would see the window that the immune system is suppressed in healthy people lays on 4 - 6 hours for the tempo runs and goes as far as 48 hours for long runs at 70% of vo2max. Secondary when keeping up the immune system super compensates a while with the short sessions. With the long session it just goes back where it was.

The other method (supporting immune function) would be to run huge miles at 60% - 65% of vo2max which would be possible but again i don't think it is that specific to the mile. Again recovery runs should never be over 65% of vo2max. It gets even more important as you age.

I don't have to tell you what

I rather like to see how for you 6' pace goes from anaerobic threshold to right at aerobic threshold. Instead of waiting and running 7' - 7'30" miles go for short runs at 6' mile and build a mile at them each month. Build them up. Keep jogging 9' - 10' miles in between just to get recovery actively and support low key endurance. When you get near race time of course you should go to fast interval work but you will be ready when 6'/miles are slower then theoretical marathon pace (heart rate if you would train for it).

You could even keep some miles at 6' per mile pace in (2 runs) and do 1 hard track session and sprint work on one or two other days like described by some. I prefer to utilize 4 x 200 with 2' rest at 800 meter pace just speeding up the way or a bit less stressful in the beginning 6 x 100 on the soccer track bare footed to get the sprinting technique back in. Always focus on high knees when running accelerations. Build the 100's down to 14" without getting winded (relaxed sprints without lots of tension) and build the 4 x 200 to 30" - 31". Those will give great support for the hard track session(400 meter reps or something like that). Coupled with base endurance at 6'/mile.

As i told i am a big believer in weights. You don't have to do crazy work to improve. But each weight session will give advantages for running. If you have the 50 year old's little layer of fat it will burn of for some more muscle (you will actually look great) and you are protecting the knee's from maltracking due to muscular imbalances. You also will protect yourself some degree to stress fractures if you do lower leg training.

If you don't have time to go to the gym just buy a weights.

20k dreamer wrote:

Whoopee!

What a tool!

Go back to Dyestat.

This.

was this already posted? Ha, what an appropriate article, published today:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970204047504574384973660445730.html

Ok good for you. Thanks for telling us your 5K time. Was the course certified?

pete, it was the picture that from that link that produced the norton warning

SoCal Pete wrote:

47 & holding wrote:

My Norton just said that Pete's site is unsafe?

Really? Did it give any details? There shouldn't be anything on there to raise an alarm. If anyone else out there has gotten this message, please let me know!

aaaaaaaaaaaaaaa wrote:

was this already posted? Ha, what an appropriate article, published today:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970204047504574384973660445730.html

Gotta say when I see a ROF(real old fart)with the long time look of worn out muscles grimacing their way thru YAMR yet another meaningless race I gotta wonder why.

NEVER GIVE UP

who cares wrote:

aaaaaaaaaaaaaaa wrote:

was this already posted? Ha, what an appropriate article, published today:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970204047504574384973660445730.html

Gotta say when I see a ROF(real old fart)with the long time look of worn out muscles grimacing their way thru YAMR yet another meaningless race I gotta wonder why.

47 & holding wrote:

NEVER GIVE UP

give up what?

This quote from the article almost made me stop reading it at that point: "I raced without competing". The first thing that popped into my mind was the "a trophy for everyone so no one gets hurt feelings" crowd. However, I did finish the entire article.

I believe that most people enjoy life better when they are striving and working for something just beyond their current reach. Now I understand that there are a few exceptions of people that get too carried away, but that is not most people.

Engaging in an activity like a Road Race or a Tri just because you like it is great, but warning others to give up their dream or passion is wrong. Do they tell people to give up their six figure income jobs as they get older because there is too much stress for that kind of money at that age? No.

who cares wrote:

Gotta say when I see a ROF(real old fart)with the long time look of worn out muscles grimacing their way thru YAMR yet another meaningless race I gotta wonder why.

Stop wondering ... They do it for the same reasons that younger guys grimace their way through meaningless races (you know, like high school and college cross-country and track, local road races, or any race that doesn't have national or world championship implications or status ... or a good payday). They do it because they love to train and race, because they have friends in the sport, and because it's a blast (not to mention a wise lifestyle choice) to be fit.

The question I have is: Since you don't understand the underlying impetus for training and racing, why on earth do you do it?

post/reply of the day

SoCal Pete wrote:

who cares wrote:

Gotta say when I see a ROF(real old fart)with the long time look of worn out muscles grimacing their way thru YAMR yet another meaningless race I gotta wonder why.

Stop wondering ... They do it for the same reasons that younger guys grimace their way through meaningless races (you know, like high school and college cross-country and track, local road races, or any race that doesn't have national or world championship implications or status ... or a good payday). They do it because they love to train and race, because they have friends in the sport, and because it's a blast (not to mention a wise lifestyle choice) to be fit.

The question I have is: Since you don't understand the underlying impetus for training and racing, why on earth do you do it?

SoCal Pete wrote:

who cares wrote:

Gotta say when I see a ROF(real old fart)with the long time look of worn out muscles grimacing their way thru YAMR yet another meaningless race I gotta wonder why.

Stop wondering ... They do it for the same reasons that younger guys grimace their way through meaningless races (you know, like high school and college cross-country and track, local road races, or any race that doesn't have national or world championship implications or status ... or a good payday). They do it because they love to train and race, because they have friends in the sport, and because it's a blast (not to mention a wise lifestyle choice) to be fit.

The question I have is: Since you don't understand the underlying impetus for training and racing, why on earth do you do it?

Cause when I was young hard training hurt but you recovered you set personal records in a nutshell it was fun.

I do not race cause you reach a certain age where racing becomes self destructive and them old farts are self destructive yes even the most revered old farts like Ed Whitlock and um you.

Who Cares: you're a yo-yo. I'm 52 and have been racing since I was 13, and would have raced at least one race every year in between.

Competing gives the impetus to keep exercising. I'll never again set a PR, but I still finish in front of 98% of the field in local 5ks, and have still won three or four in the last couple of years, and have given college x-country recruits a pretty good scare.

I'm also sometimes running age corrected times that are better than I ran at 28.

If it's not worth me doing what you call YAMR, then it's obviously not worth it for the several 100 - mostly much younger - who are finishing behind.

Just because the performance is - in absolute terms - not as good as 25 years ago, it doesn't mean that the activity is pointless, worthless, or meaningless.

And you may regard a race as meaningless, presumably because it's not a Championship of some kind (and I've run in a few of those, including a number of national championships), it doesn't not mean that others may not find meaning within the activity - a chance to renew friendly rivalry with local competitors; a chance to improve performance in relative terms (relative to age); a focal point that gives structure and purpose exercise; a opportunity to be the best Old Fart you can. These and doubtless other valid reasons, may not have meaning to you, but they clearly do to numerous others.