How can Ryan Hall be doing Tempo runs 22.5 seconds faster than prior to Beijing?

Hang on. So, am I suppose to think that Hall is doing 8 mile tempo runs at, lets just say, hypothetically, 435 pace? That concerns me in that he wasn't able to do that in his 15K leadup race at that pace. I truly hope that he hasn't been doing "tempos" this fast. That OR he wasn't carrying the 2...or his calculator was one of those with solar panels. As a wise sage once noted, if he had a 2:03 in him, he doesn't anymore. He didn't. He doesn't. Robert Kipkoech Cheruiyot wins.

to go back to my original post ... if he is really running his tempo runs 22.5 seconds faster than before Beijing ... he is ready to about 11 minutes faster than his 2:06 if his tempo runs in Beijing were legitimate workouts at full speed ... if not ... silly to bring up how he running them that much faster now ... Like saying he running mile repeats in 4:20 prior to Beijing but now running them at 3:57:5 ... just not sensible

My fearless prediction: top eight, but not top three, and 2:09 low.

Hey, I've been right three (out of three) times before...

Love to be wrong this time, though.

Fattty R. Belt Buckle wrote:

to go back to my original post ... if he is really running his tempo runs 22.5 seconds faster than before Beijing ... he is ready to about 11 minutes faster than his 2:06 if his tempo runs in Beijing were legitimate workouts at full speed ... if not ... silly to bring up how he running them that much faster now ... Like saying he running mile repeats in 4:20 prior to Beijing but now running them at 3:57:5 ... just not sensible

Fatty you are a twit, and a mindless troll.

Hall never pretended he was in 2.06 shape in Berlin. In fact he ran a marathon there just so we could know what shape he was in...

He is better shape than Bejing. Much better. That is all.

what!?

shingle - I said silly to compare his tempo runs now to prior to Beijing ... if he tapering or not in top shape - fine - but don't say he running 22.5 seconds faster per mile like he ready to run 22.5 seconds per mile for marathon

speed is king ... you are not doing 8-mile tempo runs at 4:50 and running 2:06 ... 2:06 is like 4:45 pace (might be wrong) and you say he running 8 mile workouts slower than that pace?

I am guessing he is running just under 4:30 pace for his 8 mile tempo and he was a little over 4:50 pace before beijing. As said before, the heat could be some of the reason for this along with being a little more fit.

If that would put him at 2:05 on a fast course, could he run 2:07s at Boston?

Boston is downhill, so it is faster than a fast course.

Are you new to running?

J.R. wrote:

Boston is downhill, so it is faster than a fast course.

THAT IS AN EASY QUESTION!! 8-miles is SHORTER than it used to be before Bejing!!! :-)

Fattty R. Belt Buckle wrote:if he is really running his tempo runs 22.5 seconds faster than before Beijing ... he is ready to about 11 minutes faster than his 2:06

Ah, here's where the misunderstanding is. You're confusing "training" with "racing," when in fact those are two very different things. Any correlation that exists is highly nonlinear. If you're running X pace in training and then race at Y pace, that doesn't mean that training at five seconds per mile faster than X will translate to racing at five seconds per mile faster than Y.

Apparently Hall was flat in his 8-mile tempos before Beijing, whereas now he's feeling great and hitting them three minutes faster. Whether this is a good or bad thing, we will only find out in Boston. But trying to read too much into his "exact" training paces (which of course you were simply making up and then getting worked up over your own hypothetical scenarios) is silly.

(And if you've never had three-minute swings in the time of your tempo runs, despite fitness being reasonably similar, then I applaud your machine-like consistency.)

22.5 seconds is a ridiculous claim simply for the neglect of significant figures. I highly doubt that Hall is running 3:00 faster on an 8.00 mile course. However, it seems reasonable to approximate 2:55-3:05 with '3 minutes' and for his 8 mile course to have an error between 8-80m from an exact 'mile.'

He really should have said 22-23, or better yet, 20ish. Give the competition something to stew about while all the while satisfying high school physics/chemistry teachers everywhere.

I am really sad that I read this whole thread. What a bunch of losers we are.

Bill Rodgers won Boston and New York four times each. He also managed to win several other marathons during his prime which lasted almost a decade. What is that about Boston putting nails in the coffin?

1973 Boston Marathon (Did not Finish)(DNF)

1973 Baystate Marathon (2:28:12) 1st Course Record (CR)

1974 Boston (2:19:34) 14th

1974 New York City Marathon (NYC) (2:36:00) 5th

1974 Philadelphia Marathon (2:21:57) 1st CR

1975 Boston (2:09:55) 1st American Record (AR)

1975 Enschede Marathon, Holland (DNF)

1975 Fukuoka Marathon (2:11:26) 3rd

1976 Olympic Trials (2:11:58) 2nd

1976 Montreal Olympics (2:25:14) 40th

1976 NYC (2:10:10) 1st CR

1976 Sedo Island, Japan (2:08:23) 1st CR (200 meters short)

1976 Maryland (2:14:28) 1st CR

1977 Kyoto, Japan (2:14:25) 1st

1977 Boston (DNF)

1977 Amsterdam, Holland (2:12:46) 1st CR

1977 Waynesboro (2:25:12) 1st

1977 NYC (2:11:28) 1st

1977 Fukuoka (2:10:55) 1st

1978 Boston (2:10:13) 1st

1978 NYC (2:11:28) 1st

1978 Fukuoka (2:12:53) 6th

1979 Boston (2:09:27) 1st AR

1979 Montreal (2:22:12) 15th

1979 NYC (2:12:12) 1st

1980 Boston (2:12:11) 1st

1980 Toronto (2:14:47) 1st

1980 NYC (2:13:20) 5th

1981 Houston-Tennaco (2:12:10) 1st CR

1981 Boston (2:10:34) 3rd

1981 Atlantica-Boavista, Rio de Janeiro, Brazil (2:14:13) 1st CR

1981 Stockholm, Sweden (2:13:28) 1st

1981 Bank One, Columbus, OH (2:17:34) 7th

1982 Houston (2:14:51) 5th

1982 Tokyo (2:24) 301st

1982 Boston (2:12:38) 4th

1982 Atlantica-Boavista, Rio de Janeiro, Brazil (DNF)

1982 Big M, Melbourne, Australia (2:11:08) 1st

1983 Orange Bowl, FL (2:15:08) 1st

1983 Boston (2:11:58) 10th

1983 Beijing, China (DNF)

1983 Chicago (2:21:40)

1984 U.S. Olympic Trials (2:13:31) 8th

I think most would agree Billy was a freak of nature in his ability to race the marathon distance. He just didnt get beat up like other athletes. Thanks for the list , note the times , many of these races were like long steady state runs for Billy , he never had to blow it out.

You would have to know the course , the elites who have pounded it out in prep , the athletes frustrated by the course and the athletes who today still scratch thier head's why it was never the same after Boston. Im not trying to be a jerk , but unless you were around the athletes over greater periods of time and knew the other events , you just could not understand.

That said , lets hope Ryan runs well and has Billys legs for the rest of his running days.

That 2:25 in Waynesboro must have seemed like a jog.

Also, I didn't realize he did so many marathons a year or that the Orange Bowl used to have a marathon.

Prepare yourselves, letsrun..

Ryan Hall will win the Boston Marathon in Course Record time. This kid is special.

i was the one who through up the math in the other thread. i used 22 sec, no decimals. he said he was running 3min faster. that is a qoute. however when i read what you say i think it is important to note he didn't say 20s/mile faster. that may indicate he isn't averaging 20s/mile faster on them. the one we've heard about was a 4:teens first mile, through 5k < 14:00, etc.

there was an article in runners world by hall where he talks about his tempos and he asks the readers "have you ever gone out too fast."`