Back to Back training for Masters ?

Swap Saturday for wed and it is almost Hal Higdon.

try this, every day for 8 months. jog for 75 minutes a day and take a sauna.

Snatch wrote:

Swap Saturday for wed and it is almost Hal Higdon.

Doesn’t Hal Higdon have speed work ?

Does Hal’s Sat / Sun sessions compare with 2 x 2 hours ?

I wouldn’t have thought so ???

Anyone else ?

48man wrote:

Has anyone had any success with this sort of approach ?

Saturday AM = 2 hours steady

Sunday AM = 2 hours steady

Monday PM = 45 min easy

Tuesday PM = 45 min easy

Wednesday PM = 1 hour including tempo/race pace run

(Race = half marathon)

Thursday = PM 45 min easy

Friday = OFF

Crazy ? yeah maybe, but my work stuffs me around quite a bit during the week, and I'm trying to maximise my weekend.

I've done something very similar when in my 40's and am still doing it at 62. The main difference is that Saturday is usally a race or threshold workout consisting of apprx 90 minutes total including warmup and cooldown Sunday would be a long run of 2 hours or more. Wednesday is what you are doing or something similar, but often 90 min or slightly longer.

All other days are easy/slow, I don't plan any rest days but will take one or 2 a month if needed.

In 40's I ran 33:48 10k, 1:15:27 HM

Since reaching 62, 10k has slipped to 39:22 and HM to 1:26:33

Thanks Jim, yeah I was wondering whether to make wednesday a bit longer.

I actually did 2 hours back to back this weekend for the first time. Saturday was a breeze, but I found Sunday a bit of a slog.

But todays (Mondays)45 minutes was a breeze compared to what I have done in the past, the same as you mentioned --- Sat race / Sun long.

Usually I am just doing a painful crawl on Monday.

Time will tell I suppose :-)

Questions for Jim:

1) With what kind of effort/pace do you approach your Sunday 2hr. run, after that tempo run on Saturday?

2) Have you found that tempo and long runs on successive days leads to too much wear and tear on tendons, muscles, etc.? (Obviously not, since you've been doing it for 20yrs.)

With schedule limitations like 48man and a 56 year old body, I'm constantly searching for the right balance of volume/intensity/rest.

Good thread.

Questions for Jim:

1) With what kind of effort/pace do you approach your Sunday 2hr. run, after that tempo run on Saturday?

After a tempo run or intervals I’ll generally run it in 7:40-7:55 range, which is faster than my daily maintenance runs which are usually between 8:10-8:40 and sometimes slower. If the Sunday run comes the day after a race, it will usually be more like 8:10-8:20. Btw, I rarely hammer intervals or tempos. Seldom do I go faster than 10k pace, but I race a lot.

2) Have you found that tempo and long runs on successive days leads to too much wear and tear on tendons, muscles, etc.? (Obviously not, since you've been doing it for 20yrs.)

Not so far (knock on wood). One thing that has helped a lot is that I run most of my maintenance runs and some of my longer ones on soft grass. I usually stay off the pavement except for races, most long runs, and track workouts. I figure that I have to do some long runs on pavement to prepare the legs for racing there. The pavement feels very fast, btw, after running all week on the grass.

With schedule limitations like 48man and a 56 year old body, I'm constantly searching for the right balance of volume/intensity/rest.

I actually seem to recover better when I run more often rather than vice versa. However, I run very easy on my easy days, don’t usually hammer workouts, and do a high pct of miles on soft grass. I forgot to add that I do quite a few doubles when daylight savings time is in effect, even though I’ve been averaging only 55-60 mpw. “They” say that you’re not supposed to do doubles on less than 70 mpw, but I find that they help a lot, especially on easy days. Good for weight control too.

“They” say that you’re not supposed to do doubles on less than 70 mpw, but I find that they help a lot, especially on easy days. Good for weight control too

Yeah Jim, I used to do daily doubles some years ago when my employment allowed me too.

But I actually think weight control is the main benefit, unless you can have a nap sometime between them, then I think the benefits are a lot wider reaching.

Comparing to Higdon is Stretching things a lot but in respect of sat.sun.

The double equivalent is a race paced run on Saturday of half your Sunday long run distance.Theory is that you run your long run when you are tired thus preparing you for raceday.

Example:6weeks out from Marathon.

Sat:10m race pace.

Sun:20m easy.

Yes Higdon does have speedwork. Alternating with Hill reps

and longish Tempo runs.

I realise it’s probably an ultra runner thing; the back to back long runs. But I think I’ll stick with it for a while and see what happens.I don’t want to go 4 plus hours like them, because I don’t want to end up plodding.And if I keep Mon, Tue, easy, I'm interested to see how Wednesdays Tempo run goes.I’m not bothering with speed work or hill reps at this stage.My long runs cover a fair bit of hilly terrain anyway.

With schedule limitations like 48man and a 56 year old body, I'm constantly searching for the right balance of volume/intensity/rest.

That’s the key Ps25; getting the balance that suits us in our individual job / life situations :-)

Good thread.

Thanks to Jim and 48man.

48man, keep us posted on how the back to back long runs go.