Seb Coe's REAL 5km best is 13.56.

No they won't: I'm pretty sure that a crazy 78 year old's recollection of a session 20 years ago won't be ratified as an official PB

look, just from his mile PB do you begin to realize how unlikely that is?

I work with a guy that had the pleasure of beating Coe twice in road relays in the mid to late 80's (TVH relays during March - just over 5k in distance). Twice my mate over took Coe and one time managed to out kick him. My mate has run 29.07 for a road 10km, 14.00 for 5km and 8.02 for 3km on the track and is no slouch in the finish straight.

He said he was suprised at Coe not being able to go faster in these relays. He appreciates Coe's training probably wasn't geared up for the races but he felt he wouldn't have been able to get the better of Ovett or Cram in similar fashion.

I think Coe wouldn't have been able to go much quicker than 14.00 and for what its worth I reckon Elliott would have struggled too.

These stories of 7 x 800m's in 2.02 are great camp fire tales. Truth is Coe didn't write any of his stuff down, neither did Ovett or Cram and the majority of their stories were for the benefit of their competition!

Coe would definitely have ran faster than 14. If he had specifically trained for the 5 he would have been sub 13:20. The fact is he never moved up from 800m. It was his favorite event and he was still running it in 1:43.3 at the end of his career. He ran well on the short leg in the Southerns a few times. Considering he only did this event a couple of times there are a few classy guys who never ran as fast. Did your mate finish in front of him there?

http://mcs.open.ac.uk/mkac/seaatimes.htm

You dont know much about Peter Coe do you? Peter was meticulous about recording Seb's sessions and analysing and comparing times with previous sessions. Take a look at Better Distance (p376) for Seb's training in 5 weeks to his 1500m gold in LA. Watch Born To Run and look at him analysing Seb's training in the section shot at the family home.

anyone wanna sell born to run on dvd???

14:06? 13:56? Compared to 1:41/3:29/3:47, does it really matter?

If ... Horwill is not talking out of his arse ...

If water isn't wet ...

Anyone know what Coe or Ovett have done round Sutton Park?

Long and short stages.

Horwill says he watched Coe once do I think it was 8 X 800 with an elite 10k guy and he ran something like 2:08 206, 205 204 203 200 158 156. He then said Coe told him he thought he could run 1320 and horwill said he agreed

If it is the race I am thinking of - I was there when Seb set his PB. It was at the yorkshire champs one may. He cruised along behind Simon Cahil for 11.5 laps then opened up a huge margin on the last lap without looking particularly stretched. I know it is sometimes deceptive to base expectations on how easy a runner looks at a slower pace but by my reckoning it would have taken a lot faster than 14 minutes to beat Seb that day.

I was not a Coe fan (Ovett was my hero) but anyone who saw him run in-person could see that he was different to the good county standard 5000m runners doing 14 minutes. Perfectly balanced controlled power. Sure, he may have had the odd bad day, and got beaten by some lesser runners on the roads but I don't doubt he could have beaten 14 if he had been bothered. Too busy doing fast 8s and miles.

Are you sure that workout is correct?

I've read this by Frank Horwill:

But where did Coe get his amazing endurance from? The answer came to me in 1986 when I went to Battersea Park Track one Saturday morning with a 13:11 5km performer to do a session of 7 x 800m at 5km speed with 45 secs rest. The rep times were fixed at 2:08 because the 5km runner was returning to fitness after injury. Coe was on the track and came across and asked what we were doing and could he join in? I felt a little apprehensive that an acknowledged 800m/1,500m runner would not survive a 5km pace session with a short recovery. The 800ms went like this: 2:08, 2:06, 2:04, 2:02, 2:00, 1:58 and 1:56! Coe led them all. Afterwards, he confessed that he did a 5km pace session at 13:20 speed each week. I ventured the opinion that he could run a good 5km anytime. He agreed, but said he didn't like the event! It is doubtful whether any 800m runner before or since could have completed such a session in such times.

link:

http://www.serpentine.org.uk/advice/coach/fh13.php

I thought Seb's dad meticulously planned his workouts, and "hey, what are you guys doing - can I join in" wouldn't be likely.

Horwill always uses 45 sec per 100m for recovery, so I doubt the 30 sec part as well.

In Born to Run he talks about doing something meaningful over 5km. When a world record holder talks about doing something meaningful, you know he\'s sure he can run well under 13:20, given that the WR for 5km was 13:01 at that stage.

Since Coe was in close to his best ever shape in '86 I can see him joining in the session on a spur of the moment thing if it was reasonable. It is a good intimidation factor to beat specialists at their own game. The session is also one that he regularly did on the road. He was also still thinking of the 5k and perhaps wanted to see how he stacked up against a good runner.

I'm wondering who that runner was. Was it Hutchings or Buckner?

statistician wrote:

No they won't: I'm pretty sure that a crazy 78 year old's recollection of a session 20 years ago won't be ratified as an official PB

who exactly ratifies personal bests?

jeez...ya'll so serious 'n stuff ...!

I remember Coe stating in an interview that the 5,ooom was his favourite event to watch. Something about the fact that a race over 4 laps or so was over before you could really enjoy it, but that the speed, tactics and duration of a high quality 5k was just about as good as it gets. As a spectator of course.

He was national 3,000m champion as a kid and could have developed over the longer distances if he wanted to - sub 13.20 was certainly within his capabilities. I guess that those Sheffield hills, plyometrics, weights, gym work, drills with the sprinters at Loughborough and his own desire to come down in distance from earlier years means we can only guess.

Coe one of the original epo fraudsters from the 1980's....coached by his father, the first and last athlete that guy ever coached....father was more medicine man (epo) than track coach....

SMJO wrote:

Since Coe was in close to his best ever shape in '86 I can see him joining in the session on a spur of the moment thing if it was reasonable. It is a good intimidation factor to beat specialists at their own game. The session is also one that he regularly did on the road. He was also still thinking of the 5k and perhaps wanted to see how he stacked up against a good runner.

I'm wondering who that runner was. Was it Hutchings or Buckner?

I think you'll find that Frank Horwill constantly makes references, direct or indirect, to his star protege Tim Hutchings.

usa all the way wrote:

Coe one of the original epo fraudsters from the 1980's....coached by his father, the first and last athlete that guy ever coached....father was more medicine man (epo) than track coach....

His Dad was an Engineer by trade. Not a medicine man. Fool!

I'm not convinced about these arguments for Coe running 13.20. Its not as simple as stick some sums together. 3.29 does not mean you can run 64's for 3 miles!

What did Cram run?? 13.28! And he took his 5km racing / training seriously at the end of his career. Ovett didn't even break 13.20 on his way to the World Champs 5km final. Even with his Cross Country pedigree.

I'm not sure Coe ever got the chance to run at Sutton Park.

Finally Coe won that AAA's 3km title in a tactical race (8.22 I believe), where his sprint won through. Not his endurance pedigree.