Who counted Hall out when at Stanford

ttc. not much a surprise, though.

http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?board=1&id=438919&thread=438889

flagpole willy. again, not much of a surprise there, either.

http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?board=1&thread=263713&id=264611#264611

i'm sure there are many on here who questioned hall in the past, especially considering his rather lackluster first few years at stanford. these are just people who actually keep the same username (a dilligent search, i'm sure, could bring up all sorts of crazy things people have said over the years). hall always seemed to come out real strong early in xc and then pretty much disappear for the rest of xc and track. hopefully his success continues - and he milks that "B level pro talent" for all it's worth.

chuck d wrote:

ttc. not much a surprise, though.

Absolutely I did. But to my credit (I always find a way to credit myself, right?) I admitted my error later and came out with it. In my defense though, Hall was a B-level talent in the 1500 at that time....yea I know, I'm just making excuses...

hey, we all make stupid predictions from time to time. i counted webb out and called for raczko's head. that's one of the reasons i now temper my thoughts on athletes - especially young ones. resiliency is a rather important trait in elite athletes.

and to flagpole's credit, he said hall and sage couldn't hold ritz's jock - at least he got one right.

chuck d wrote:

hey, we all make stupid predictions from time to time. i counted webb out and called for raczko's head. that's one of the reasons i now temper my thoughts on athletes - especially young ones. resiliency is a rather important trait in elite athletes.

What posters don't understand is it's healthy to give true opinions. If you see something in someone's running ability/characteristics, then state it. This is a message board. 50% of opinions are positive, 50% are negative. I say it both ways. But some people interpret the negative as bashing.

A former teammate's 400M speed was below par, but that doesn't mean I'm bashing him or counting him out forever. Just stating what I think. That's what the board's for. Personally, I love identifying runner's weaknesses, because that's the way to speculate how they can improve. But everyone takes it wrong.

Its kind of ridiculous thinking back and realizing how quick letsrun posters are (myself included) to declare someones career dead when they have one or 2 off years

the most notable examples are the big 3 or webb, ritz, and hall...

at one point or another it has been the popular opinion of the letsrun crowd that all of these runners is "finished"

however all have rebounded well and I think for the first time in 2007 I think well have all 3 healthy and running fast...

I just wish it was 2008

it's not just commentary on letsrun - that seems to be the usual commentary in sports. you're a baseball player and you get into a slump, you're junk and should be traded. a team has a bad few games, they're done (steelers last season, anyone?). most commentators don't take the long view. and, because our sport is a "fitness" sport much more than a skill sport, you really have to take a long view because it's not as easy to rebound quickly in our sport - as opposed to baseball or football - when you have a setback. an injury or illness at a key point can blow up a whole season.

Wrongo me-o wrote:

I did and I admit it. I said he shouldn't even become a pro.

Another thread but nothing else is going on.

Well, I never thought Hall shouldn't become a pro, but he sure in hell shocked me with that half. Hell, I would have been shocked if he JUST BARELY beat Curp's record, and he was more than a minute below that. He's better than I thought he would ever be -- at least at the half marathon. Anyone who is saying this is one of the best performances by an American ever is right. That time is so stout it's almost unbelievable.

So, he's proven me wrong. Up to this point though, I don't see how anything he did would point to this. Very decent 5,000 time, but slower than Tegenkamp. Some decent races here and there in college, but he never really seemed to put anything together. Would be once really nice race and then back to mediocrity. I hope he can keep going from this, and man that's going to be hard because he's entered a completely new level.

Just to make something clear though, even if Webb and Tegenkamp and Hall and whoever else gets up to world class level, that doesn't diminish anything that Ritz has done or will do. I still think Ritz will drop some unbelievable times along the lines of what Hall just did. If Hall can improve greatly on what he just did, then man he has a shot at winning a major race some day. I'll admit I never thought he'd be at that level.

Hall is "only" a 4:02 miler, but is almost like a 3:53 miler. I say this because at the longer distances, he seems to have such an easy time with the pace, in a way that you see with the speedy runners.

ttc wrote:

Hall is "only" a 4:02 miler, but is almost like a 3:53 miler. I say this because at the longer distances, he seems to have such an easy time with the pace, in a way that you see with the speedy runners.

Has hall not run a mile since high school? I honestly don't know. I do know though that he's clearly better than a 4:00 miler now. Even Ritz ran almost the equivalent of a 4:00 mile with that 3:42 1500 of his, and that was as a freshman in high school. Pretty safe to say that with a little bit of focused speed work that both of these guys could break 4:00 in the mile.

Flagpole Willy wrote:

Even Ritz ran almost the equivalent of a 4:00 mile with that 3:42 1500 of his, and that was as a freshman in high school. Pretty safe to say that with a little bit of focused speed work that both of these guys could break 4:00 in the mile.

I didn't know Ritz was close to sub 4 in the 9th grade.

Seriously, a lot of runners just need to find the right type of training. Training like a Kenyan won't work for many whites, they're not Kenyans. Vice versa is true in many cases. They also tend to not be doped like a lot of the high level runners under Rosa and Hermens etc because they have no political protection.

Hard truths wrote:

Flagpole Willy wrote:

Even Ritz ran almost the equivalent of a 4:00 mile with that 3:42 1500 of his, and that was as a freshman in high school. Pretty safe to say that with a little bit of focused speed work that both of these guys could break 4:00 in the mile.

I didn't know Ritz was close to sub 4 in the 9th grade.

Seriously, a lot of runners just need to find the right type of training. Training like a Kenyan won't work for many whites, they're not Kenyans. Vice versa is true in many cases. They also tend to not be doped like a lot of the high level runners under Rosa and Hermens etc because they have no political protection.

Yeah -- freshman in college. You knew what I meant.

Flagpole Willy wrote:

Has hall not run a mile since high school? I honestly don't know. I do know though that he's clearly better than a 4:00 miler now. Even Ritz ran almost the equivalent of a 4:00 mile with that 3:42 1500 of his, and that was as a freshman in high school. Pretty safe to say that with a little bit of focused speed work that both of these guys could break 4:00 in the mile.

Hall's run some 1500's and even ran the 1500 and mile a couple-three times as a pro, during the last 2 outdoor seasons. He ran around 3:43 and 4:03 in races with runners who went faster. Especially given that he did it during his 13:16 season, it's not a given that he can break 4:00. He even admitted it was on his mind when entering those races.

Sounds like Bill Rodgers- a 4 something miler, but- who cares? The mile is not his goal.

Like Rodgers, Hall has gotta' be like 90% slow twitch.

hall ran 3:42 in HIGH SCHOOL...

he ran 1:51 in hs too if memory serves me right. he's got wheels, don't be silly.

but how many miles is Hall slated to run this year?

He's changed his goals.

What does this say about the Standford coaching? training?

How much talent has that program wasted?

first of all, it's "stanford." second, calling hall's stanford career a waste is galactically stupid. he was an xc runner-up and won an NCAA title at 5K. he did so well that he could forego his final year of eligibility and turn pro. doesn't sound to me like the stanford coaching or training wasted his talent.

I counted him out. But now I use him as an exampleto stick to it if things go wrong in the first couple years of college.