He didn't say that Jakob wouldn't win Gold in 1500, rather that he wouldn't break 1500/mile record. Pay attention. I think he has a better chance at the Mile (as others have also said) than the 1500m. As far as I am concerned, those with relatively little speed (ElG may also be in that camp), but good endurance are more suspicious in terms of doping (EPO would help more in that direction) - but I also believe that this number is small anyway.
The problem with the success of the 1500/5k type currently (and aiding in fast multiple rounds and the final is the benefit), is that the 800/1500 type is now marginalized - but a well trained proponent may have a better chance in a one-off record attempt.
"says Jakob is too distracted by the 5000 and won't break the 1500/mile WRs until he improves his speed"
nonsense. jakobs weakness is kick. he is the fastest 1500m runner otherwise. your kick is not what gets you wr
Jakob's weakness isn't just kick but his speed, which means to try to run faster over the 1500 he risks tying up sooner. That is what the "speed" debate is about.
This is one of the worst posts in history. Congrats.
Yeah I have to agree - when it's a post basically slamming 3 of the greatest MD runners in history it seems bizarre and what's the impetus for it, because Cram said he felt Jakob needed to be faster over the 800 to get the 1500 record? (I know he said mile too, but I think a lot of people who do follow the sport closely and have great knowledge of the sport would respectfully disagree with him).
And anyway, Crams narrative isn't wrong - I can say with some level of confidence that if Jakob was capable of being within half a second of Crammy over 2 laps (not even a race - just a two lap time trial), then he would have the 1500m WR already.
This is one of the worst posts in history. Congrats.
Ha, ha, ha -thank you! I woke you up…
What puzzles me is that you don’t use my “worst post” as an opportunity to write a more correct narrative here (like other posters who disagree in my post do)…
I don’t think you are afraid of me -that I will challenge your perspective on the sport in a way you can’t deal with -my views are clearly of a minority’s perspective, so you shouldn’t be afraid of lack of support and upvotes. And your knowledge of the theme is so good, and your ability to formulate coherent reasoning ditto, so I just have to say it’s really strange you constrict yourself to one liners a lot of us think is an immature way of debating..
This post was edited 8 minutes after it was posted.
The thread topic ignores the elephant in the room. Quite apart from issues of speed, how much more drugs will Jakob need to beat a doped world record - because there's no way he takes it without them.
The thread topic ignores the elephant in the room. Quite apart from issues of speed, how much more drugs will Jakob need to beat a doped world record - because there's no way he takes it without them.
I still don’t know:
1. A speed problem.
2. An injury problem he can’t come fully back from.
The thread topic ignores the elephant in the room. Quite apart from issues of speed, how much more drugs will Jakob need to beat a doped world record - because there's no way he takes it without them.
You don't know if the record is doped.
For sure it's possible to beat a doped record clean.
The thread topic ignores the elephant in the room. Quite apart from issues of speed, how much more drugs will Jakob need to beat a doped world record - because there's no way he takes it without them.
The thread topic ignores the elephant in the room. Quite apart from issues of speed, how much more drugs will Jakob need to beat a doped world record - because there's no way he takes it without them.
You don't know if the record is doped.
For sure it's possible to beat a doped record clean.
You are right we don't know for sure, but I would find it incredibly hard to believe it isn't doped.
The thread topic ignores the elephant in the room. Quite apart from issues of speed, how much more drugs will Jakob need to beat a doped world record - because there's no way he takes it without them.
You don't know if the record is doped.
For sure it's possible to beat a doped record clean.
Come on man... the record from 1998 still stands after improved methods of PED detection, super shoes, pacing lights etc.
And sure it's possible to beat a doped record clean, but that is a very very low possibility given how advanced the sport was already back and how deep the talent pool was. These aspects haven't shifted much since and likely won't unless we get into gene doping soon. The person who breaks this record will be doped to the gills.
The thread topic ignores the elephant in the room. Quite apart from issues of speed, how much more drugs will Jakob need to beat a doped world record - because there's no way he takes it without them.
For you, there’s an elephant in every room so Jakob’s is pretty easy to ignore.
It’s not weak for time-trialers, it is weak tactically. Kejelcha, Aregawi, Kiplimo and even Kipkorir and times are egregious offenders in this. The more a race is a breakaway, the better they do. As soon as they are asked to figure out how to win a slower race, they completely struggle. In XC, the roads, and lightning-fast DL meets where tactics come into play less, they look great. Barega and Cheptegei have tactical sense but their priority is the 10,000 and both seem to be a bit fragile if they try to do 2 events. Guys like Chelimo (in the earlier years), Jakob, Katir last year, Grijalva and Krop outperform their fitness relative to the 4 because they can handle slow races.
It’s not weak for time-trialers, it is weak tactically. Kejelcha, Aregawi, Kiplimo and even Kipkorir and times are egregious offenders in this. The more a race is a breakaway, the better they do. As soon as they are asked to figure out how to win a slower race, they completely struggle. In XC, the roads, and lightning-fast DL meets where tactics come into play less, they look great. Barega and Cheptegei have tactical sense but their priority is the 10,000 and both seem to be a bit fragile if they try to do 2 events. Guys like Chelimo (in the earlier years), Jakob, Katir last year, Grijalva and Krop outperform their fitness relative to the 4 because they can handle slow races.
I agree 100% with everything you said. Which brings up an interesting side point, to me. This is why I think Jakob is way better 3k/5k and possibly 10k runner, because he does so damn well in tactical 5000's but not as well in tactical 1500's. As a fan I wish he would just move up and be on his way.
It’s not weak for time-trialers, it is weak tactically. Kejelcha, Aregawi, Kiplimo and even Kipkorir and times are egregious offenders in this. The more a race is a breakaway, the better they do. As soon as they are asked to figure out how to win a slower race, they completely struggle. In XC, the roads, and lightning-fast DL meets where tactics come into play less, they look great. Barega and Cheptegei have tactical sense but their priority is the 10,000 and both seem to be a bit fragile if they try to do 2 events. Guys like Chelimo (in the earlier years), Jakob, Katir last year, Grijalva and Krop outperform their fitness relative to the 4 because they can handle slow races.
Nailed it. Although on that point, I'm not convinced Grijalva's ceiling is 12:52 based on how tactical that race was in Florence where he set that PR. I wouldn't be surprised if he was capable of running around 12:48 with better pacing (still a big gap to the big four though.)
It’s not weak for time-trialers, it is weak tactically. Kejelcha, Aregawi, Kiplimo and even Kipkorir and times are egregious offenders in this. The more a race is a breakaway, the better they do. As soon as they are asked to figure out how to win a slower race, they completely struggle. In XC, the roads, and lightning-fast DL meets where tactics come into play less, they look great. Barega and Cheptegei have tactical sense but their priority is the 10,000 and both seem to be a bit fragile if they try to do 2 events. Guys like Chelimo (in the earlier years), Jakob, Katir last year, Grijalva and Krop outperform their fitness relative to the 4 because they can handle slow races.
I agree 100% with everything you said. Which brings up an interesting side point, to me. This is why I think Jakob is way better 3k/5k and possibly 10k runner, because he does so damn well in tactical 5000's but not as well in tactical 1500's. As a fan I wish he would just move up and be on his way.
What has he ever run that makes you think he could be just as good at 10000m? He finished 12th in a U20 World XC race and his wins in European XC were against B level fields. On the roads, he’s managed a 27:54 10K.
Nailed it. Although on that point, I'm not convinced Grijalva's ceiling is 12:52 based on how tactical that race was in Florence where he set that PR. I wouldn't be surprised if he was capable of running around 12:48 with better pacing (still a big gap to the big four though.)
Definitely agree. He isn’t too far off Krop/Fisher in that next tier even if his PR isn’t there. He’s still outperforming to finish as high up as he has. That’s why people thinking of Nur/Woody/Klecker as a medal contender based on Luis is probably off. He has shown more in all sorts of races (DL, Worlds heats) outside of US-based ones. It just isn’t as consistent as Grant or in a really fast one yet.