Uh oh, Roy! You stirred up the hornet's nest with some logic and facts. That's not going to sit well with the bot brigades and cut-and-paste conservatives.
The Texas power grid is pretty lame. AI will cause massive brownouts in The Lone Star State.
Except Texas can expand it's grid while California is run by people who electricity is evil.
hahaha and maybe the lights will stay on when the winter storm hits or peak summer or in between
turns out there is money to be made on artificial energy scarcity as opposed to giving the people a grid cushion
you probably also miss why one would have a oil refinery/port complex ie it's for export -- kinda like why do you think keystone goes across the country and then out a port town -- hint, it's not so we use it
Eh, 39% of it is federal, so California is only accounting for the last 10.3%.
I don't know if this is the best source, just one I found on Google, but according to this CA's state-local tax burden of 13.5% (5th worse) is only 3.3% higher than the median state (NM #25).
So yeah if you think all our taxes are too much, you can make that argument. But really you want to get on CA's case? It seems like CA is higher than average by 3-4% out of 49%. My take: that's the California premium. People like living in a beautiful place.
But yes, I can see why TX or FL could be appealing from a tax perspective.
Exactly. Still the state where the most people would like to live. Economy is bigger than almost all countries.
BTW if you are taxed at 50% of your "income" you need to get an IRA or 401K big time.
Top federal rate of 37% kicks in at $578k. CA also has brackets. To hit the max bracket of 12.3%, you need to make $698k. Married filing jointly, the fed bracket is $693k and the CA bracket is $1.369 mil.
If you make $150k, your marginal tax rate in CA for fed and state taxes is closer to 20-22%. That is a bit higher than other states, but CA has excellent public k-12 schools, great public universities, beaches, mountains, great weather, etc.
Also, the really rich people in CA are not paying taxes. They get their compensation in stock options and will borrow against their holdings to pay their bills. The outflow of people from CA was significant during COVID, but there is now a significant number of people who left for TX and FL who are going back. In FL, you do not have income tax, but the property insurance more than makes up for the lower taxes. In TX, you have a good 5 months of the year when it is 90+ degrees and you can't do anything outside unless you are either in the water or drink a half dozen bottles of gatorade.
This is not to say CA is paradise. Housing costs are out of control. Natural disasters are always right around the corner with floods, mudslides, fires and earthquakes threatening everyone in the state. The major metro areas are too big and have no room for population growth, even with increased density that YIMBYs think is the answer to everything. But taxes are really not that bad.
Lol. California has added population since 1849 and is now losing population. Well, except for illegal aliens.
California's combined taxes, fees, etc are the among the highest in the nation, yet LA and SF are crime-ridden sh--holes filled with hundreds of thousands of zombie drug addicts and homeless. California was NOT like this in this in the 1960s, 1980s, even early 2000s when taxes and fees were much lower. No one calls it "the Golden State" anymore. It is a left wing dystopia that serves as a cautionary tale for other states.
Thanks for that. A lot of people really don't understand how taxes work or what they pay for. Also, California is pretty great. I visited a friend who left for the midwest in both summer and winter. Miserable weather both weeks and almost nothing outdoorsy to do besides hunting. I grew up on the East Coast and it was better than that, but CA beats both by a large margin. CA politics don't affect my daily life, but the great location and weather do in a very positive way.
Top federal rate of 37% kicks in at $578k. CA also has brackets. To hit the max bracket of 12.3%, you need to make $698k. Married filing jointly, the fed bracket is $693k and the CA bracket is $1.369 mil.
If you make $150k, your marginal tax rate in CA for fed and state taxes is closer to 20-22%. That is a bit higher than other states, but CA has excellent public k-12 schools, great public universities, beaches, mountains, great weather, etc.
Also, the really rich people in CA are not paying taxes. They get their compensation in stock options and will borrow against their holdings to pay their bills. The outflow of people from CA was significant during COVID, but there is now a significant number of people who left for TX and FL who are going back. In FL, you do not have income tax, but the property insurance more than makes up for the lower taxes. In TX, you have a good 5 months of the year when it is 90+ degrees and you can't do anything outside unless you are either in the water or drink a half dozen bottles of gatorade.
This is not to say CA is paradise. Housing costs are out of control. Natural disasters are always right around the corner with floods, mudslides, fires and earthquakes threatening everyone in the state. The major metro areas are too big and have no room for population growth, even with increased density that YIMBYs think is the answer to everything. But taxes are really not that bad.
You cannot hope to raise a family on $150k in California which is why the state has been bleeding population for years.
Democrats are turning California into a banana republic where there is no middle class.
Eh, 39% of it is federal, so California is only accounting for the last 10.3%.
I don't know if this is the best source, just one I found on Google, but according to this CA's state-local tax burden of 13.5% (5th worse) is only 3.3% higher than the median state (NM #25).
So yeah if you think all our taxes are too much, you can make that argument. But really you want to get on CA's case? It seems like CA is higher than average by 3-4% out of 49%. My take: that's the California premium. People like living in a beautiful place.
But yes, I can see why TX or FL could be appealing from a tax perspective.
Exactly. Still the state where the most people would like to live. Economy is bigger than almost all countries.
BTW if you are taxed at 50% of your "income" you need to get an IRA or 401K big time.
If it was the state where most people would like to live people would be moving in. They are moving out.
California and NY have been the #1 or #2 economies in the country for over 100 years whether they were red or blue. This is because they are the major ports of entry for the largest economy on the planet not because of the political party of the governor.
In recent years, however, the Democrats have become so extreme they are destroying the state. It is not normal for states to be losing population. In every case the states that are losing population are losing the population because of Democrat policy.
Top federal rate of 37% kicks in at $578k. CA also has brackets. To hit the max bracket of 12.3%, you need to make $698k. Married filing jointly, the fed bracket is $693k and the CA bracket is $1.369 mil.
If you make $150k, your marginal tax rate in CA for fed and state taxes is closer to 20-22%. That is a bit higher than other states, but CA has excellent public k-12 schools, great public universities, beaches, mountains, great weather, etc.
Also, the really rich people in CA are not paying taxes. They get their compensation in stock options and will borrow against their holdings to pay their bills. The outflow of people from CA was significant during COVID, but there is now a significant number of people who left for TX and FL who are going back. In FL, you do not have income tax, but the property insurance more than makes up for the lower taxes. In TX, you have a good 5 months of the year when it is 90+ degrees and you can't do anything outside unless you are either in the water or drink a half dozen bottles of gatorade.
This is not to say CA is paradise. Housing costs are out of control. Natural disasters are always right around the corner with floods, mudslides, fires and earthquakes threatening everyone in the state. The major metro areas are too big and have no room for population growth, even with increased density that YIMBYs think is the answer to everything. But taxes are really not that bad.
You cannot hope to raise a family on $150k in California which is why the state has been bleeding population for years.
Democrats are turning California into a banana republic where there is no middle class.
Is it Democrats or is it just capitalism? What you need is better wealth distribution, but that's never going to happen under either party.
A lot of people that left California for affordable housing soon found that while the mortgage was doable, they struggle with $700+/month utility bills and rising to keep that 3500 square foot McMansion at a comfortable temperature/humidity. The pool and half acre lawn also cost a boatload of money to maintain.
They also got surprised that when their commute dropped from an hour each way to just 30 minutes each way, it also cost them $15-20 in tolls each way.
They are hiring private tutors and sending their kids to places like Kumon Math because the local public school districts value book bans and new 6000 seat football stadiums over basic education.
The neighbors are a little cold because you came from California and you don't go to a proper evangelical church. It gets even more awkward when you let them know that you don't go to church at all.
Just once, you would like to dine at a restaurant that doesn't serve something deep fried, slathered in gravy, on a bun, wrapped in a tortilla, or charred over an open flame.
People always ribbing you, sometimes implying that you are gay, about your fuel-efficient Japanese sedan. "When you gonna man up and get a turbo diesel pick up like the rest of the men in this neighborhood?".
Your 49ers and USC flags keep going missing during the football season.
Nasty letters and fines from the HOA about your loud rock and indie music on weekends even though your neighbors blast country music at volumes that can be heard three blocks away.
Top federal rate of 37% kicks in at $578k. CA also has brackets. To hit the max bracket of 12.3%, you need to make $698k. Married filing jointly, the fed bracket is $693k and the CA bracket is $1.369 mil.
If you make $150k, your marginal tax rate in CA for fed and state taxes is closer to 20-22%. That is a bit higher than other states, but CA has excellent public k-12 schools, great public universities, beaches, mountains, great weather, etc.
Also, the really rich people in CA are not paying taxes. They get their compensation in stock options and will borrow against their holdings to pay their bills. The outflow of people from CA was significant during COVID, but there is now a significant number of people who left for TX and FL who are going back. In FL, you do not have income tax, but the property insurance more than makes up for the lower taxes. In TX, you have a good 5 months of the year when it is 90+ degrees and you can't do anything outside unless you are either in the water or drink a half dozen bottles of gatorade.
This is not to say CA is paradise. Housing costs are out of control. Natural disasters are always right around the corner with floods, mudslides, fires and earthquakes threatening everyone in the state. The major metro areas are too big and have no room for population growth, even with increased density that YIMBYs think is the answer to everything. But taxes are really not that bad.
You cannot hope to raise a family on $150k in California which is why the state has been bleeding population for years.
Democrats are turning California into a banana republic where there is no middle class.
Doing a bit better the last few years, but for my first 10 years of being a parent, we navigated the California zombie apocalypse with one earner on incomes of $80-130k. Smallish home, old cars, no fancy toys, but always stable and never particularly stressed about money.
A lot of people that left California for affordable housing soon found that while the mortgage was doable, they struggle with $700+/month utility bills and rising to keep that 3500 square foot McMansion at a comfortable temperature/humidity. The pool and half acre lawn also cost a boatload of money to maintain.
They also got surprised that when their commute dropped from an hour each way to just 30 minutes each way, it also cost them $15-20 in tolls each way.
They are hiring private tutors and sending their kids to places like Kumon Math because the local public school districts value book bans and new 6000 seat football stadiums over basic education.
The neighbors are a little cold because you came from California and you don't go to a proper evangelical church. It gets even more awkward when you let them know that you don't go to church at all.
Just once, you would like to dine at a restaurant that doesn't serve something deep fried, slathered in gravy, on a bun, wrapped in a tortilla, or charred over an open flame.
People always ribbing you, sometimes implying that you are gay, about your fuel-efficient Japanese sedan. "When you gonna man up and get a turbo diesel pick up like the rest of the men in this neighborhood?".
Your 49ers and USC flags keep going missing during the football season.
Nasty letters and fines from the HOA about your loud rock and indie music on weekends even though your neighbors blast country music at volumes that can be heard three blocks away.
^ This is actually the type of cope that Californians use to pretend their state isn't shi.tty.
California public schools suck. That's the funniest part. You guys clutch your pearls over nonexistent "book bans" while your state literally tries to ban algebra.
You cannot hope to raise a family on $150k in California which is why the state has been bleeding population for years.
Democrats are turning California into a banana republic where there is no middle class.
Doing a bit better the last few years, but for my first 10 years of being a parent, we navigated the California zombie apocalypse with one earner on incomes of $80-130k. Smallish home, old cars, no fancy toys, but always stable and never particularly stressed about money.
I'll try to find it but there was an article yesterday about Californians that left for Texas, Florida, Tennessee, and Idaho now moving back to California. Turned out the grass wasn't greener, things were not necessarily cheaper, and the lifestyle/people were very lacking.
Nice breakdown Roy, but should the federal brackets really be the same for all states? Making $250K a year in California is not the same as making $250K in Kansas or some other less expensive state. Should the brackets be adjusted to reflect the fact that someone in California pays $6 a gallon for gas and $9 for a jar of peanut butter, when someone in e.g. Indiana pays $3.50 a gallon and $5 for the same jar? I know we choose to live where we choose to live and can always leave, but shouldn't there be some adjustment to reflect the cost of living in the more expensive states? The middle class has all but vanished out west.
And for the record, California is a joke right now; politically, economically, socially, the whole 9. But I surfed before work this morning and am looking out my office window at sunny skies and a beautiful blue Pacific Ocean. I'm gonna take my chances and stay.
Exactly. Still the state where the most people would like to live. Economy is bigger than almost all countries.
BTW if you are taxed at 50% of your "income" you need to get an IRA or 401K big time.
If it was the state where most people would like to live people would be moving in. They are moving out.
California and NY have been the #1 or #2 economies in the country for over 100 years whether they were red or blue. This is because they are the major ports of entry for the largest economy on the planet not because of the political party of the governor.
In recent years, however, the Democrats have become so extreme they are destroying the state. It is not normal for states to be losing population. In every case the states that are losing population are losing the population because of Democrat policy.
many states lose population. Bear in mind you have also had a republican governor. CA has always set the pace for the rest of the country in most things. Its getting too expensive, thats just capitalism at work. Never once heard a republican with an idea on anything. Just complaining.
Exactly. Still the state where the most people would like to live. Economy is bigger than almost all countries.
BTW if you are taxed at 50% of your "income" you need to get an IRA or 401K big time.
If it was the state where most people would like to live people would be moving in. They are moving out.
California and NY have been the #1 or #2 economies in the country for over 100 years whether they were red or blue. This is because they are the major ports of entry for the largest economy on the planet not because of the political party of the governor.
In recent years, however, the Democrats have become so extreme they are destroying the state. It is not normal for states to be losing population. In every case the states that are losing population are losing the population because of Democrat policy.
This is a little dated but I think shows us what we're talking about with recent migration patterns:
One way to interpret the data is what you're saying: people are fleeing blue states for red states due to political policies. But what makes you think that's the largest driver?
Look at those top 5 states losing population: CA, NY, IL, MA, NJ. Aside from being blue the other thing they have in common is they have some of biggest cities in the country which means opportunity. That means traditionally there has been a net inflow to these regions. However that is now reversing likely driven by: (1) the rise of remote work. You can be employed out of New York, LA, Boston, etc. while living somewhere cheaper, (2) the crazy inflation of the last few years very quickly pushed us past the equilibrium point. There should be an equilibrium point, right? Good places attract people, which drives up prices, until eventually prices are too higher and people need to leave which lowers prices. I think we're seeing that now, and that makes sense to me.
Do Democratic policies play a role? There are some people for whom policies matter philosophically. There are some people for whom those extra state & local taxes are enough to push them past the breaking point. But it seems unlikely to me that those would be more significant than the post-pandemic drivers of remote work and high inflation, right?
Nice breakdown Roy, but should the federal brackets really be the same for all states? Making $250K a year in California is not the same as making $250K in Kansas or some other less expensive state. Should the brackets be adjusted to reflect the fact that someone in California pays $6 a gallon for gas and $9 for a jar of peanut butter, when someone in e.g. Indiana pays $3.50 a gallon and $5 for the same jar? I know we choose to live where we choose to live and can always leave, but shouldn't there be some adjustment to reflect the cost of living in the more expensive states? The middle class has all but vanished out west.
And for the record, California is a joke right now; politically, economically, socially, the whole 9. But I surfed before work this morning and am looking out my office window at sunny skies and a beautiful blue Pacific Ocean. I'm gonna take my chances and stay.
Uhhh no. The COL difference is (or should be) reflected in the difference in comp package for the person working in California vs the person working in Kansas, not reflected by different federal tax rates.