Your attention span is so short, you forgot it was an answer your own question: "Lance Armstrong lacked self belief?"
And my answer offered "ethics": "Lance Armstrong clearly lacked self-belief, and ethics."
And you are the one who reduced it to one factor, responding to: "It is the lack of self-belief, combined with the belief in the power of doping to create supernatural performance, that tempts many athletes to turn to doping."
So I offered three factors.
J*sus Chr*st, you think you are offering a reason for Armstrong's doping to say he "lacked ethics" when by definition doping is an ethical offence? You are seriously the most ****** stupid poster on these doping threads.
And then you trot out an even greater idiocy, that Armstrong only "believed" doping aided him, that it couldn't have done so as a fact and he took all those risks without knowing what he was doing - which had nothing to do with the "supernatural" but simply increasing his performance level. 7 yellow jerseys says it worked. Actually, your sanity is seriously in question.
Or ... by the law of projection, you are the seriously most stupid one, simply mistaking me for your reflection.
We were talking about multiple factors that motivates "athletes to turn to doping". "Ethics" is one factor in that decision process.
We weren't talking about "doping worked", but I will concede that seven yellow jerseys says that some combination of "Training + 1 tour per year + EPO (and transfusions) + HGH + Testosterone + Cortisone + Steroids + Actovegin + (who knows?) + Drafting + Placebo + Intimidation" "worked".
Interesting story here in L'Equipe. When I saw the headline, I thought..."Hmm, didn't he retire last year?" I was curious if it was one of those cases where an athlete has no intention of competing anymore and thus stops real...
Rekrunner - you're correct in that LA used a lot of those substances over his cycling career. However, when it comes to Michelle Ferrrari & his PED program for endurance athletes, it's all about the performance benefits in endurance & stamina from O2-vector doping.
Ferrari studied & mentored under Dr Francesco Conconi at his university in Italy. Conconi was obsessed with O2-vector doping is considered as the doctor who introduced EPO to European sport.
Conconi had spoken about his work with blood transfusions stating "It means an improvement of 3 to 5 seconds in the 1500m, 15 to 20 seconds for 5000m races and 30 to 40 seconds for 10,000m."
Furthermore, in this interview, LA clearly states that with Ferrari it's all about "red cells." He reiterates that "low-octane" doping (i.e. testosterone, steroids, amphetamines, corticosteroids, etc) existed for decades in cycling before the onset of EPO. But he says, it was EPO - or "high octane rocket fuel" that things went really crazy in the peleton with faster speeds never seen before & incredible recovery during GTs.
One of the most memorable moments of the first part of ESPN's documentary Lance , which aired Sunday, was when seven-time Tour de France champion Lance Armstrong opened up about ...
And he's spot on: The speed of the peleton - especially climbing speeds - exploded from the mid-90s onward when rocket fuel was becoming the PED of choice. And the recovery of these top GC guys during grueling 3-week GTs was remarkable.
Rekrunner - you're correct in that LA used a lot of those substances over his cycling career. However, when it comes to Michelle Ferrrari & his PED program for endurance athletes, it's all about the performance benefits in endurance & stamina from O2-vector doping.
Ferrari studied & mentored under Dr Francesco Conconi at his university in Italy. Conconi was obsessed with O2-vector doping is considered as the doctor who introduced EPO to European sport.
Conconi had spoken about his work with blood transfusions stating "It means an improvement of 3 to 5 seconds in the 1500m, 15 to 20 seconds for 5000m races and 30 to 40 seconds for 10,000m."
Furthermore, in this interview, LA clearly states that with Ferrari it's all about "red cells." He reiterates that "low-octane" doping (i.e. testosterone, steroids, amphetamines, corticosteroids, etc) existed for decades in cycling before the onset of EPO. But he says, it was EPO - or "high octane rocket fuel" that things went really crazy in the peleton with faster speeds never seen before & incredible recovery during GTs.
And he's spot on: The speed of the peleton - especially climbing speeds - exploded from the mid-90s onward when rocket fuel was becoming the PED of choice. And the recovery of these top GC guys during grueling 3-week GTs was remarkable.
"it's all about the performance benefits in endurance & stamina from O2-vector doping."
That's what you keep telling me. But what does your own source tell me? Did Conconi also say it was all about O2-vector doping? According to Donati, Conconi's new system of blood boosting was to enrich the blood: "(Conconi) had elaborated a new system, improving upon the one used in Finland, for the transfusion of selected red blood cells, which were stored at -90°, enriched with particular substances and then transfused two or three days before an important event."
Do you think he was enriching it with particular substances like O2, or red cells?
"an improvement of 3 to 5 seconds in the 1500m, 15 to 20 seconds for 5000m races and 30 to 40 seconds for 10,000m."
Sounds amazing! But wait. Should I take Conconi the Italian doping doctor at his word that these estimates from enriched blood transfusions were not embellished? Is there any supporting data? Were the resulting performances really that much faster than natural performances, or were the baseline start times also too slow due to lack of control? In the end, were the Italians from the 1970s and early 80s, notably faster in the 1500m, 5000m, and 10000m? Donati mentioned Italy at the Moscow Olympics. Looking at the Olympic medal count from 1976, 1980, and 1984, Italy doesn't seem unusually strong in these 1500m, 5000m, and 10,000m events, with just two medals in 1984, after he met Conconi in 1981. Similarly, when I looked at top-5 times as of 1990 in events from 1500m to the marathon, there was only 1 Italian, with a performance from 1989.
"LA clearly states that with Ferrari it's all about "red cells.""
Well now we know from Donati, that Lance isn't telling us everything because that is not what Dr. Ferrari learned from Dr. Conconi. We have to take whatever Lance says with a grain of salt, being two-degrees of freedom removed from Dr. Conconi, who enriched the blood with particular substances. Lance's strong belief placing his full faith in Dr. Ferrari has all the hallmarks of a significant placebo effect. What's more is that Conconi and Ferrari were also quite knowledgeable about advances in training without doping, e.g. using heart rate monitors and power meters for feedback, allowing Ferrari to create a comprehensive sophisticated and elaborate strategy that combined many drugs, including dosage and timing, intricately integrated with advanced training.
"The speed of the peleton - especially climbing speeds" ... "And the recovery ..."
Again, was the speed faster than "natural"? Was the recovery from steroids?
Putting all projection aside, we were talking about what factors motivates athletes to dope.
It looks like you agree that a lack ethics is a prerequisite factor in the decision making process to dope. Ethicals persons lack that factor.
It's equally banal for me to say that athletes who dope "believe" in the power of doping.
It's equally banal for me to say that athletes looking for "external" support, lack confidence in their "internal" ability.
All these things go without saying, but sometimes have to be dumbed down to a moronic level considering the lowest common denominator of my intended audience.
Your inability to contradict these banal tautologies, and efforts to change the subject and play the angry old man, suggest that deep down you must agree with all these banal tautologies, causing you great internal conflict, and all these insults are psychological defense mechanisms designed to cope with your internal conflict.
And now, am I reading you right? Are you suggesting that doping didn't work for him after all, and that my drivel otherwise, is my own meaningless concoction? Well, if you say so, maybe I'll have to retract my concession.
Putting all projection aside, we were talking about what factors motivates athletes to dope.
It looks like you agree that a lack ethics is a prerequisite factor in the decision making process to dope. Ethicals persons lack that factor.
It's equally banal for me to say that athletes who dope "believe" in the power of doping.
It's equally banal for me to say that athletes looking for "external" support, lack confidence in their "internal" ability.
All these things go without saying, but sometimes have to be dumbed down to a moronic level considering the lowest common denominator of my intended audience.
Your inability to contradict these banal tautologies, and efforts to change the subject and play the angry old man, suggest that deep down you must agree with all these banal tautologies, causing you great internal conflict, and all these insults are psychological defense mechanisms designed to cope with your internal conflict.
And now, am I reading you right? Are you suggesting that doping didn't work for him after all, and that my drivel otherwise, is my own meaningless concoction? Well, if you say so, maybe I'll have to retract my concession.
Well the mods are ok with your psychotic ramblings so I'll leave you to it.
