From so many of the posts on here it’s almost like people think that if an athlete is doping it suddenly makes them super human. At it’s essence all EPO does is increase red blood cells making oxygen distribution and use more efficient, boosting endurance beyond what’s normal. Does it prevent an athlete from becoming injured or slow down the aging process? No. Kipchoge is an outlier in this way in so many respects. He has had a world class career that has spanned the good part of 2 decades, rarely if ever has had a serious injury and now in his late 30s has continued to improve on his marathon times. EPO does not have the ability to help an athlete continue to improve as they age. If an athlete has been doping for a long period of time you would still expect their performances to gradually decline as part of the normal aging process. For whatever reason Kipchoge has managed to continue to improve. I believe this is primarily the result of him perfecting his marathon race more and more which has had a net positive impact over any negative impact from aging. I do believe however that Kipchoge will probably not make much more of a dent in his world record. No matter how much of an outlier he is as an athlete Mother Nature will eventually catch up.
Here’s why I don’t think Kipchoge is doping
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Could this be Lance Armstrong part 2?
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GreatDane wrote:
From so many of the posts on here it’s almost like people think that if an athlete is doping it suddenly makes them super human. At it’s essence all EPO does is increase red blood cells making oxygen distribution and use more efficient, boosting endurance beyond what’s normal. Does it prevent an athlete from becoming injured or slow down the aging process? No. Kipchoge is an outlier in this way in so many respects. He has had a world class career that has spanned the good part of 2 decades, rarely if ever has had a serious injury and now in his late 30s has continued to improve on his marathon times. EPO does not have the ability to help an athlete continue to improve as they age. If an athlete has been doping for a long period of time you would still expect their performances to gradually decline as part of the normal aging process. For whatever reason Kipchoge has managed to continue to improve. I believe this is primarily the result of him perfecting his marathon race more and more which has had a net positive impact over any negative impact from aging. I do believe however that Kipchoge will probably not make much more of a dent in his world record. No matter how much of an outlier he is as an athlete Mother Nature will eventually catch up.
This is such a strawman argument, people know that doping doesn't turn you from a couch bum to a 2:01 marathoner. Your arguments don't make sense, doping absolutely can help prevent injuries.
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GreatDane wrote:
From so many of the posts on here it’s almost like people think that if an athlete is doping it suddenly makes them super human. At it’s essence all EPO does is increase red blood cells making oxygen distribution and use more efficient, boosting endurance beyond what’s normal. Does it prevent an athlete from becoming injured or slow down the aging process? No. Kipchoge is an outlier in this way in so many respects. He has had a world class career that has spanned the good part of 2 decades, rarely if ever has had a serious injury and now in his late 30s has continued to improve on his marathon times. EPO does not have the ability to help an athlete continue to improve as they age. If an athlete has been doping for a long period of time you would still expect their performances to gradually decline as part of the normal aging process. For whatever reason Kipchoge has managed to continue to improve. I believe this is primarily the result of him perfecting his marathon race more and more which has had a net positive impact over any negative impact from aging. I do believe however that Kipchoge will probably not make much more of a dent in his world record. No matter how much of an outlier he is as an athlete Mother Nature will eventually catch up.
Based on your post, your title could’ve well concluded the opposite.
I know some smokers who lived a very long life, but smoking doesn’t prolong life, therefore they couldn’t have been smoking, right? Booyakasha!
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EPO is not the only way to dope.
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Here’s why I think he’s probably doping:
1. He was great in his 20s but never GOAT-level like he is now.
2. He continues to improve and break records as he approaches age 40.
3. When he wore super shoes that were not available to most other runners at the 2016 Olympics, he showed that he’s willing to do things that give him an unfair competitive advantage.
4. He lives and trains in a country that has a well-documented doping problem with its distance runners.
5. He only races twice a year. Plenty of time for him to dope.
6. His partnership with Nike to run under 2:00:00 was a scientific experiment to seemingly try anything and everything possible to show a human could run that fast.
7. Due to said partnership with Nike and all the money they are making from super shoes, there is a vested interest in helping him avoid a negative drug test. And unlike the situation with Lance Armstrong, there is no whistleblower in Kenya who wants to bring down their national hero.
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Who says it’s only epo? Epo also helps in recovery which leads to decrease in injury. For the most part, I think those that are using PEDs, are mostly using to recover quicker which helps to train harder, more frequently. Anyone who is running top 10 in an event on the world level is suspect. This shouldn’t even be debatable.
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Clean Sport Advocate wrote:
Here’s why I think he’s probably doping:
1. He was great in his 20s but never GOAT-level like he is now.
2. He continues to improve and break records as he approaches age 40.
3. When he wore super shoes that were not available to most other runners at the 2016 Olympics, he showed that he’s willing to do things that give him an unfair competitive advantage.
4. He lives and trains in a country that has a well-documented doping problem with its distance runners.
5. He only races twice a year. Plenty of time for him to dope.
6. His partnership with Nike to run under 2:00:00 was a scientific experiment to seemingly try anything and everything possible to show a human could run that fast.
7. Due to said partnership with Nike and all the money they are making from super shoes, there is a vested interest in helping him avoid a negative drug test. And unlike the situation with Lance Armstrong, there is no whistleblower in Kenya who wants to bring down their national hero.
+1
8. Two from Sang's group got already banned for doping (Rutto + Kacheran).
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there's more wrote:
Clean Sport Advocate wrote:
Here’s why I think he’s probably doping:
1. He was great in his 20s but never GOAT-level like he is now.
2. He continues to improve and break records as he approaches age 40.
3. When he wore super shoes that were not available to most other runners at the 2016 Olympics, he showed that he’s willing to do things that give him an unfair competitive advantage.
4. He lives and trains in a country that has a well-documented doping problem with its distance runners.
5. He only races twice a year. Plenty of time for him to dope.
6. His partnership with Nike to run under 2:00:00 was a scientific experiment to seemingly try anything and everything possible to show a human could run that fast.
7. Due to said partnership with Nike and all the money they are making from super shoes, there is a vested interest in helping him avoid a negative drug test. And unlike the situation with Lance Armstrong, there is no whistleblower in Kenya who wants to bring down their national hero.
+1
8. Two from Sang's group got already banned for doping (Rutto + Kacheran).
Yep, having training partners who have been caught is a big red flag. Not a smoking gun, but definitely a red flag.
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In a country of dopers Kipchoge is like the lone Sicilian businessman who has no connections with the local mafia, who run everything.
This post was edited 1 minute after it was posted.323 -
GreatDane wrote:
From so many of the posts on here it’s almost like people think that if an athlete is doping it suddenly makes them super human. At it’s essence all EPO does is increase red blood cells making oxygen distribution and use more efficient, boosting endurance beyond what’s normal.
How does having more red blood cells give Superhuman endurance?
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Clean Sport Advocate wrote:
Here’s why I think he’s probably doping:
1. He was great in his 20s but never GOAT-level like he is now.
2. He continues to improve and break records as he approaches age 40.
3. When he wore super shoes that were not available to most other runners at the 2016 Olympics, he showed that he’s willing to do things that give him an unfair competitive advantage.
4. He lives and trains in a country that has a well-documented doping problem with its distance runners.
5. He only races twice a year. Plenty of time for him to dope.
6. His partnership with Nike to run under 2:00:00 was a scientific experiment to seemingly try anything and everything possible to show a human could run that fast.
7. Due to said partnership with Nike and all the money they are making from super shoes, there is a vested interest in helping him avoid a negative drug test. And unlike the situation with Lance Armstrong, there is no whistleblower in Kenya who wants to bring down their national hero.
Addressing your points:
1. An athlete can be phenomenal running track distances and then never do that well at the marathon. Likewise an athlete can excel at the marathon having never been a GOAT on the track - introducing Kipchoge.
2. The marathon is an event where you can improve your times well into your late 30s. Recall Haile Geb who ran the then world record of 2:03:59 at around age 36? Kipchoge has had the advantage of new show technology and also remained injury free which I believe has also aided to an extent his ability to offset this.
3. Are you saying that any other world record holder who was offered new shoe technology that was not necessarily available to all other athletes would have turned down a similar opportunity?
4. Guilty by association is not guilty. Most recent example - Jake being labelled a doper by many because his brother Zane tested positive.
5. He only races twice per year because his event is the marathon! Are you expecting him to be running a marathon every other month and still race as well as possible?
6. From the very beginning it was made very clear to the world that the sub-2 project with Nike if successful would not count as an official world record due to the course used and pacing etc. It was however a project to try to garner renewed public interest in the sport and also open people’s eyes to the possibility of a legal sub 2 marathon under normal conditions.
7. You are basically saying that there is a huge conspiracy within Nike of covering up doping within their athletes. So you think all Nike athletes are dopers? There is not one shred of evidence to suggest that. Nike is however by far the biggest shoe company in the world. Naturally people will try to drag it’s name down into the mud.
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OP would be the individual who said here's why I think Lance Armstrong is not doping in the early 2000s.
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The people who claim he is doping haven't exclusively said he is on EPO.
There are many other drugs he could use to dope; a number of which, do slow down the aging process (testosterone) and do prevent injury (steroids).
However, until there's evidence - who gives a sh*te.
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?.?.? wrote:
GreatDane wrote:
From so many of the posts on here it’s almost like people think that if an athlete is doping it suddenly makes them super human. At it’s essence all EPO does is increase red blood cells making oxygen distribution and use more efficient, boosting endurance beyond what’s normal.
How does having more red blood cells give Superhuman endurance?
Red blood cells provide oxygen to working muscles.
More red blood cells = more oxygen being delivered to working muscles (which improves both Vo2 max and lactate threshold).
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GreatDane wrote:
Does it prevent an athlete from becoming injured or slow down the aging process? No.
https://www.kidney-international.org/article/S0085-2538(15)52557-X/pdf
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/0167494395006877
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Numerous peer reviewed studies citing EPO as having anti-aging properties.
This guy has likely been taking EPO for at least 20 years, much of that time full throttle, including in his youth and possible adolescence. He is probably the only human being alive who can say that. How the F can we possibly say what times a world class marathon runner, who is in the unique and never repeated position of taking EPO since his mid-teens until his late 30's, should be running at age 38 or 39?
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Adoi wrote:
The people who claim he is doping haven't exclusively said he is on EPO.
There are many other drugs he could use to dope; a number of which, do slow down the aging process (testosterone) and do prevent injury (steroids).
However, until there's evidence - who gives a sh*te.
Testosterone, anabolic steroids & growth hormone are powerful PEDs for the aging athlete - nothing new there guys.
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What we do know, is this is a guy who peaked athletically when he was 19, which even if his listed age is correct, is nearly two entire decades ago, and yet who is continuing to improve and smash his own world records. To any rational observer, that's absurd.
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Clean Sport Advocate wrote:
Here’s why I think he’s probably doping:
1. He was great in his 20s but never GOAT-level like he is now.
2. He continues to improve and break records as he approaches age 40.
3. When he wore super shoes that were not available to most other runners at the 2016 Olympics, he showed that he’s willing to do things that give him an unfair competitive advantage.
4. He lives and trains in a country that has a well-documented doping problem with its distance runners.
5. He only races twice a year. Plenty of time for him to dope.
6. His partnership with Nike to run under 2:00:00 was a scientific experiment to seemingly try anything and everything possible to show a human could run that fast.
7. Due to said partnership with Nike and all the money they are making from super shoes, there is a vested interest in helping him avoid a negative drug test. And unlike the situation with Lance Armstrong, there is no whistleblower in Kenya who wants to bring down their national hero.
Do you know all Kenyans to suggest there is no whistleblower among them? Moronic post.
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