In the '76 Olympics Ovett was one year away from medaling. Here is a hypothetical question: If Ovett was a year or so older, could he have won a gold medal in '76 and '80?
Yes, of course he would likely have won the 76 1500m gold if he was in the shape he was in the summer of 77.
But then, he switched focus to the 1500m after the 76 Olympics - presumably that was a decision based on his performances at those Olympics.
He could have at least medalled in both the 800 and 1500 in Montreal as it was. He tripped in the 1500 semifinal, and in the 800 final he had the misfortune to be on an outside lane when the first 300m were run in lanes, and went off way too slowly.
Ovett looked absolutely sensational in the 76 Olympic trials, where he destroyed the fields in both the 800 and 1500. That is why it was such a disappointment and the media labelled him a flop when he came back empty handed.
Ovett wins 1500 in Montreal on '77-78 form - no doubt. Not 800, I think silver. If he had kept his '77-78 self, he would have won the double in Moscow, and if he'd stayed healthy, possibly LA too. I also think that in 77-79 Ovett would have set faster WR's had he focussed on times rather than winning during that period.
I love watching his races '77-79; he was like a man among boys. Always in the right place tactically, knowing he had gifts no one could match.
He was never the same after the knee injury in '81; ran some fast times, but the burst was gone, and he got lost tactically in several races. Shame about '84 when the LA smog destroyed him.
Yes, of course he would likely have won the 76 1500m gold if he was in the shape he was in the summer of 77.
But then, he switched focus to the 1500m after the 76 Olympics - presumably that was a decision based on his performances at those Olympics.
He could have at least medalled in both the 800 and 1500 in Montreal as it was. He tripped in the 1500 semifinal, and in the 800 final he had the misfortune to be on an outside lane when the first 300m were run in lanes, and went off way too slowly.
Ovett looked absolutely sensational in the 76 Olympic trials, where he destroyed the fields in both the 800 and 1500. That is why it was such a disappointment and the media labelled him a flop when he came back empty handed.
I spoke with Steve at length a few years ago on happenstance while on holiday in Australia. He was extremely cordial and affable- much to my shock of how he had always been portrayed. He was anything but the cold hearted killer I pictured; but of course, perhaps time mellows us all. Well, quite a bit if the conversation regarding LA84. I think it’s little known that Ovett had one of his best training leadups to an event that he’d ever had. His respiratory system was just plain kaput. It’s a shame, as I truly believe he’d have medaled again in LA. My belief is the sand for Coe had he been chosen for Seoul.
In your scenario, you get to change the Olympic year. If Olympics were in 1977, Ivo van Damme may have been in the gym doing 500 sit-ups & 250 push-ups instead of dying in an auto collision.
In your scenario, you did not address African boycott of 1976. Would Black Africans participated in your scenario, 1977?
In your scenario, you did not specifically address Kenya not participating in 1976 AND 1980 Olympics. There were a lot of very good sub-144.5 Kenyan men born in late 1940's to early 1960's who could have been fit enough to challenge Ovett, 800m. Mike Boit and Wilson Waigwa would have been fit in 1977, 1500m. Even if neither men beat S Ovett, S Ovett was fond of his winning streak. Both or either could have forced S Ovett to race sub-3:33 1500m in semi-final. We have never seen S Ovett race that fast in a semi-final. Many holes in your scenario O.P.
In the '76 Olympics Ovett was one year away from medaling. Here is a hypothetical question: If Ovett was a year or so older, could he have won a gold medal in '76 and '80?
So...we are assuming Steve Ovett is in 1977 form, but John Walker is in 1976 form? If so, it's probably a toss-up, depending on how the race is run. And how well Ovett and Walker were acquainted with each-other's strengths might matter. In 1976 Walker was at his all-time strongest--his 2000 WR was not broken for another 9 years, and only then barely, by Cram--but was not at his sharpest speed-wise, and would not be able to outkick Ovett in a slow or moderately-paced 1500. The Ovett of 1977, on the flip-side, was probably as explosive as he ever got, but was not quite the finished product when it came to strength.
In your scenario, you get to change the Olympic year. If Olympics were in 1977, Ivo van Damme may have been in the gym doing 500 sit-ups & 250 push-ups instead of dying in an auto collision.
In your scenario, you did not address African boycott of 1976. Would Black Africans participated in your scenario, 1977?
In your scenario, you did not specifically address Kenya not participating in 1976 AND 1980 Olympics. There were a lot of very good sub-144.5 Kenyan men born in late 1940's to early 1960's who could have been fit enough to challenge Ovett, 800m. Mike Boit and Wilson Waigwa would have been fit in 1977, 1500m. Even if neither men beat S Ovett, S Ovett was fond of his winning streak. Both or either could have forced S Ovett to race sub-3:33 1500m in semi-final. We have never seen S Ovett race that fast in a semi-final. Many holes in your scenario O.P.
The OP asked how would Ovett do in 76 a year older, not how he would do if the Olympics were held in 77.
But yes, it's also an interesting question as to how Ivo Van Damme would have fared if he was a year older in 76. And of course, as he died in 77, we have even less to speculate with.
Van Damme and Ovett were around the same age and Ovett had always been the better athlete until Montreal.
Ovett beat Mike Boit handily just after the Montreal Games over 800m. Boit beat him at the end of the 76 season when Ovett must have been exhausted amd Boit still fresh (I suspect you are 'Slowwer' so you know that).
In 77 and 78, Ovett only ran four 800m races before the European Championships where he ran 1:44.09.which was I think the 6th or 7th fastest ever at that point. And three of those four races where just training races or races he was obliged to run in (GBR vs GDR)) vs etc).
I wonder how many 1500 runners even today have ran 1:44 flat or faster off of one real 800m race in 2 years? For example, Jake Wightman had had 9 fast 800m races in 2 years before he ran 1:43.6 last year.
Should Jimmy Carter have just ignored the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan and gone ahead with their prestige-raising Olympics?
No, he shouldn't have ignored it. He did precious little except an Olympic boycott, though, and that was the least effective of all potential measures he could have taken.
In your scenario, you get to change the Olympic year. If Olympics were in 1977, Ivo van Damme may have been in the gym doing 500 sit-ups & 250 push-ups instead of dying in an auto collision.
In your scenario, you did not address African boycott of 1976. Would Black Africans participated in your scenario, 1977?
In your scenario, you did not specifically address Kenya not participating in 1976 AND 1980 Olympics. There were a lot of very good sub-144.5 Kenyan men born in late 1940's to early 1960's who could have been fit enough to challenge Ovett, 800m. Mike Boit and Wilson Waigwa would have been fit in 1977, 1500m. Even if neither men beat S Ovett, S Ovett was fond of his winning streak. Both or either could have forced S Ovett to race sub-3:33 1500m in semi-final. We have never seen S Ovett race that fast in a semi-final. Many holes in your scenario O.P.
The OP asked how would Ovett do in 76 a year older, not how he would do if the Olympics were held in 77.
But yes, it's also an interesting question as to how Ivo Van Damme would have fared if he was a year older in 76. And of course, as he died in 77, we have even less to speculate with.
Van Damme and Ovett were around the same age and Ovett had always been the better athlete until Montreal.
Ovett beat Mike Boit handily just after the Montreal Games over 800m. Boit beat him at the end of the 76 season when Ovett must have been exhausted amd Boit still fresh (I suspect you are 'Slowwer' so you know that).
In 77 and 78, Ovett only ran four 800m races before the European Championships where he ran 1:44.09.which was I think the 6th or 7th fastest ever at that point. And three of those four races where just training races or races he was obliged to run in (GBR vs GDR)) vs etc).
I wonder how many 1500 runners even today have ran 1:44 flat or faster off of one real 800m race in 2 years? For example, Jake Wightman had had 9 fast 800m races in 2 years before he ran 1:43.6 last year.
You stated Ovett beat both van Damme and Boit. I assume Ovett beat van Damme and Boit at 1500m, not 800m. Again, there are numerous Kenyan 800m sub-1:44.5 men who were close to Ovett's age, some older and some younger who did not bother to peak for '76 or '80. J Straub said he intentionally wore Ovett out making Ovett race sub-3:37 1500m in 1st round, 1980 Olympics 1500m. Wilson Waigwa could have forced Ovett to race much faster than 3:36.xx in semifinal. In conclusion, Olympics is not World Cup. There were no heats at 1977 World Cup. John Walker would have drank less from 1976 to 1977 if Olympics were in 1977. Ovett would not have won Olympics in 1977.
Should Jimmy Carter have just ignored the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan and gone ahead with their prestige-raising Olympics?
As I remember (I was about 21) it seemed that more Americans wanted to go and do well rather than give up and not go at all.
When you were in your early twenties, were you aware of C.I.A. Operation Cyclone? I assume Steve Scott, Mary Decker and others who spoke out were not aware of said operation. Now that you know C.I.A. was in the middle of an operation, it does not matter what most U.S. citizens wanted. Soviet Union leaders knew Soviet soldiers were dying due to U.S. It would be similar to U.S. sending athletes to Moscow today. J Carter was a former submarine commissioned officer. Carter was going to be stealth compared to Biden.
Back up the Olympics one year overall and Rodgers wins the marathon in Moscow.
Yea that hit Bill with incredibly bad timing. Although he did not race the trials. We had a few that would have devastated in 80. I recall Mary decker flying at that time coming off surgery 2 years earlier. She was an easy medal in 76, 80, 84. What a sad case. Salazar, Carl Lewis, Steve Scott, even Centro!
The OP asked how would Ovett do in 76 a year older, not how he would do if the Olympics were held in 77.
But yes, it's also an interesting question as to how Ivo Van Damme would have fared if he was a year older in 76. And of course, as he died in 77, we have even less to speculate with.
Van Damme and Ovett were around the same age and Ovett had always been the better athlete until Montreal.
Ovett beat Mike Boit handily just after the Montreal Games over 800m. Boit beat him at the end of the 76 season when Ovett must have been exhausted amd Boit still fresh (I suspect you are 'Slowwer' so you know that).
In 77 and 78, Ovett only ran four 800m races before the European Championships where he ran 1:44.09.which was I think the 6th or 7th fastest ever at that point. And three of those four races where just training races or races he was obliged to run in (GBR vs GDR)) vs etc).
I wonder how many 1500 runners even today have ran 1:44 flat or faster off of one real 800m race in 2 years? For example, Jake Wightman had had 9 fast 800m races in 2 years before he ran 1:43.6 last year.
You stated Ovett beat both van Damme and Boit. I assume Ovett beat van Damme and Boit at 1500m, not 800m. Again, there are numerous Kenyan 800m sub-1:44.5 men who were close to Ovett's age, some older and some younger who did not bother to peak for '76 or '80. J Straub said he intentionally wore Ovett out making Ovett race sub-3:37 1500m in 1st round, 1980 Olympics 1500m. Wilson Waigwa could have forced Ovett to race much faster than 3:36.xx in semifinal. In conclusion, Olympics is not World Cup. There were no heats at 1977 World Cup. John Walker would have drank less from 1976 to 1977 if Olympics were in 1977. Ovett would not have won Olympics in 1977.
Well, Ovett beat Van Damme when winning the European Junior Championships in 73, despite being younger than him. Then he won silver at the senior European Championships when Van Damme was injured. They didn't race each other again until Montreal.
Ovett beat Mike Boit over 800m the very week after Montreal, with Willie Wullbeck coming second. Mike Boit, who was 3rd, would have been super motivated in that race too.
Back up the Olympics one year overall and Rodgers wins the marathon in Moscow.
Yea that hit Bill with incredibly bad timing. Although he did not race the trials. We had a few that would have devastated in 80. I recall Mary decker flying at that time coming off surgery 2 years earlier. She was an easy medal in 76, 80, 84. What a sad case. Salazar, Carl Lewis, Steve Scott, even Centro!
You do know Carl Lewis was not an apex elite sprinter in 1980. Lewis would have been favored to earn a long jump medal, 1980.