Break 38 for a 10k on a certified course, but can't even run faster than 5:20 for a mile...WTF?

no_speed_guy wrote:

30M, PR of 18:26 5k , 37:45 10k, both on certified courses. According to the VDOT table, I should be able to run a mile in around 5:18-5:19. I've tried it twice and failed miserably (more than 5 seconds short). It's not that my pacing was off. I actually locked on pace (1:20 per lap), but started fading from around the 1k mark.

IDK. 6:00 pace felt pretty smooth, but once I work it down to around 5:30 or even 5:40 pace, it got pretty tough. So, what's wrong with me? I'm not that old, so I assume age isn't an issue here. Any advice would be appreciated.

Nothing... your PRs are roughly in line with each other.

If you want to improve at the mile then work on your speed.

And no I'm not going to give example workouts. There are literally 1000s of threads already on how to improve speed.

Exactly, the OP simply hasn't trained for the mile. The VDOT tables are more like equivalents. You can't just take your actual race result and automatically expect to be able run the equivalents for every distance, you still have to do the specific training.

the vdot table assumes u trained properly for the distance. fading at 1k sounds like u haven't done much speedwork at the mile pace u want to run.

I remember when I was taking my mile PR from the 5:30s to the 5:10s. I was pacing myself poorly in many efforts to improve my best time till I figured out that a comfortable first two and a half laps followed by a faster last lap and a half, including a true leave nothing in the tank sprint for the last 50 yards or so got me the PRs. I found that going out sub 2:30 pace with a tough it out second half was a less direct route to sub 5:00 for me than going out in 2:45 pace and then picking up the pace twice. With more miles in my distance base, month by month, the comfortable 2 1/2 lap pace went down to 2:40, 2:35, etc. at the half. So, my advice is build your base for another month or two (i.e. enough to allow taking a couple of minutes off of your current 10 mile hard workout time). Then, when it feels like a good day for a mile PR, see how you can double accelerate after a 2:45 half pace over 2.5 laps. The process of getting in shape for the faster 10 miler builds your strength, and helps the first 2:45 half pace part of the mile feel easier. Gutting out the last mile or two of the superior ten miler will be good draw on what’s left practice for the last 1.5 laps of your mile PR attempts. Of course, gutting out a last lap and a half goes much faster than the ninth and tenth miles of the ten miler, so you will have some spare discomfort endurance too, which you can convert to speed. Once you’ve taken down your PR a few times this way, it’s easier to do it with competition, such as a race against runners at your fitness level that day. Good luck.

Like said above, you just need to do more mile-specific workouts and you’ll get there, if you want. Those race calculators list physiologic potential. Just because your 100m time indicates you have 2:45 marathon potential, it doesn’t mean you can run 2:45 tomorrow off 100m sprint training. It means you (probably) can if you do at least one (maybe more than one) cycle of marathon training to convert.

The other posters might be correct that you could benefit from “miler” training, but I see a weakening from a 2:40 pace as a lack of endurance, rather than a speed deficit. It’s also axiomatic that if you can’t hold the pace of the first half, then you went out “too fast,” even at 2:40, hence the idea to restart the PR hunt at 2:45 pace, after building endurance for a month or two. Reading this Message Board is often like hearing from the top 1-2% of runners, who found themselves at sub 4:40 with little or no training. Some have to do more training than “little or no” to get below 6:40. Most people have a multi month training developmental phase to improve to below 5:40 and then multi months for each ten second increment below that. You are neither slow nor imbalanced. You are very typically human for a 30 year old male trying to run a fast mile. Few 31 year olds, as a percentage, world wide, ever broke 5:20 in the mile. It’s not easy and typically achieved by the talent blessed tiny group that finds it easy to blow past 4:40 on a long odyssey so see how close they can get to 4:00, or a larger but small group that dedicates themselves to running long enough and consistently enough to have their 40 second odyssey be from sub 5:20 toward 4:40. It’s a very satisfying odyssey for the ordinary person and has 99% of the satisfaction and personal development progress that the 4:40 runner has in his quest for 4:00. Sub 5:20 is something that most Division 1 athletes never achieve, except for distance runners and a few other sport outliers. Sub 5:10 eliminates most of those other sport outliers. It’s a big jump athletically. Enjoy getting hiwever fast you do from here.

Huh? Some of my teammates who run 4:50s can only run like mid-18 in a 5k, and I don't think they can run a 37 mins 10k. OP has good enough endurance for a 5:00-10, and as other have said what he needs is more speedwork.

I can run 37:30 for 10k but only 5:45 for 1 mile. It was the opposite when I was younger.

Don't feel bad OP. I ran 17:54 and 37:27 but could never run faster than 5:21 for the mile. But I didn't care much for races shorter than 5K anyway. Wait a minute, does a 4:55 1500 count? I did run that after some specific training, I had given up on ever running sub-5 for a mile (I was a 'mile' away from that time!) and the fallback was sub-5 for 1500. Which I did, once.

Big Timer wrote:

I can run 37:30 for 10k but only 5:45 for 1 mile. It was the opposite when I was younger.

Wait...so you're telling me you're able to string together 6 miles at 6:00 but can't run faster than 5:45 for a mile? I have never seen/heard anything like that.

Don't start a mile race at your goal pace, but faster, then settle in. Even elites have bad 3rd laps unless they're really psyched.

Train by running intervals of at least 400 meters faster than goal pace, with only enough recovery to barely catch your breath and lower your pulse some. The time spent doing this will train both the cardio and efficient form necessary.

Don't do any hard workouts slower than mile goal pace.

For comparison I once ran 5:02, and 18:2x, and 38:4x within a few months of each other. (badly paced) within a few months of each other, late 20s. The 5k and 10k were very badly paced and I was aerobically undertrained. But you def should work on that speed OP.

Talk to some old runners. My PR was 4:40 in HS along with 2:05 800. I wouldn't have broken 40 minutes for 10k at that time.

Today I can run 40 minutes but only 6 minutes for 1 mile.

As a high school freshman, I ran 5:42, 11:57, then 1 month later ran 39:40

Sometimes the tables just won’t equate. I was the ultimate no speed guy until I hit puberty

I would say- yes you can you just don't want to hurt.

Sounds like you might be better at marathons or ultramarathons. You seem to have more endurance than speed, so work with it.

Yeah, I agree with what people said right away. You're really not that far off of what the VDOT tables say so there's no real cause for concern. Most people who come to running later or with PRs like you have don't really focus on the mile & under but still try to run it every now & then. That's ok but I wouldn't expect the table to 100% line up as you get older & without focusing on the distance. I don't see a problem here.