500,000 Americans Have Died of COVID

The Unkle wrote:

Died "with" Covid.

Not from Covid.

So many doctors, independent of one another, combining nationally to falsify the certificate of cause of death of every individual patient - which they dont apparently do for any other mortality. Just Covid. You have Covid Derangement Syndrome.

^Yes. These fearmongers, try as they might, will never win that game. Of course all these fools in their basements with masks on always forget to mention the survival rate. Further, they fail to mention the survival rate of otherwise healthy people. Not do they mention the survival rate for unhealthy people who get cancer, heart disease, the flu or any other of the myriad diseases you can one day come down with.

We had a very close corollary of this conversation yesterday

1) IFR and cfr have been discussed extensively . Survival rate - 1-cfr or IFR. That is standard medical terminology.

2) Other than suicide homicide war deaths and accidents, the vast majority of people who die in the United States have health issues beyond the ones ascribed as their primary cause of death.

Thankfully, uprisings against this international criminal activity in the name of covid are growing. The people CAN overthrow these usurpers and the more people start to realize the sooner this is over.

https://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2021/02/16/is-a-revolutionary-movement-developing-in-europe/

Exactly, so why try to ruin society and separate families and loved ones over this one? Just standard stuff. If you are healthy you will live, if you are unhealthy there’s a better chance you will die. Been like that forever. We’ve known this. If you want to protect yourself from early death then you need to do your best to stay healthy, not put healthy people out of work, on the streets and unable to visit loved ones without incurring abnormal costs.

#LHRC wrote:

Exactly, so why try to ruin society and separate families and loved ones over this one? Just standard stuff. If you are healthy you will live, if you are unhealthy there’s a better chance you will die. Been like that forever. We’ve known this. If you want to protect yourself from early death then you need to do your best to stay healthy, not put healthy people out of work, on the streets and unable to visit loved ones without incurring abnormal costs.

Are you Tim Boyd in disguise?

Harambe wrote:

knee jerk reactivity metric wrote:

It doesn't have to be a sudden source of pollution. The effects of previous years exposure to pollution in a patient with COPD is cumulative is it not?

Then why did it manifest suddenly as 400k excess deaths? There must be some reason for the discontinuity. COVID is an excellent explanation. I would want to see evidence of environment causes... lots of evidence.

Lockdowns. Getting out of the house and walking is very good for people with COPD. I reddit somewhere.

#LHRC wrote:

Exactly, so why try to ruin society and separate families and loved ones over this one? Just standard stuff. If you are healthy you will live, if you are unhealthy there’s a better chance you will die. Been like that forever. We’ve known this. If you want to protect yourself from early death then you need to do your best to stay healthy, not put healthy people out of work, on the streets and unable to visit loved ones without incurring abnormal costs.

Don't ask questions. Just do what you are told.

Harambe wrote:

I skimmed the papers on the algorithms they use and I think I know why the baseline dropped in 2020. 2019 was a relatively low year for deaths. . . .

It's also the case that 2017 and 2018 were relatively high years, mostly because the 2017-18 flu season was particularly bad.

That 2019 was a low year after some high years actually adds credence to the argument that these things tend to kill off those who (statistically) don't have a lot of years left. That idea has merit, though there is and will continue to be broad uncertainty as to how to put reasonable narrow bounds on "years left" for the typical Covid death. When we're a decade past this retrospective analysis will be able to do so, but for now it remains unclear.

That said, excess death statistics were introduced to the discussion to counter the argument that a large number of deaths are misattributed to Covid which is nonsense. Total U.S. deaths in 2020 were about 16% higher than 2019 and there is no reason to believe this would have been anywhere near that high absent Covid.

One can both accept that Covid has killed a lot of people and argue less severe social restrictions, but it is telling that virtually everyone arguing for looser restrictions also nonsensically minimizes the death and hospitalization toll of Covid. That suggests the discussion such as it is more dogmatic than it is scientific.

Yo, typing monkey, do millions of people die of Covid or Pneumonia?

Discus?

If the estimate going into 2020 was 3 million and we end up at 3.5 million, does that mean that the next 10 years will be about 2.95 million? If it goes back to 3 million, then where did those 500,000 people come from?

Richie Richer wrote:

If the estimate going into 2020 was 3 million and we end up at 3.5 million, does that mean that the next 10 years will be about 2.95 million? If it goes back to 3 million, then where did those 500,000 people come from?

Everybody dies eventually, Covid killed a lot of people earlier than the would have otherwise. So yes, I expect we'll see fewer deaths in 2022 than we would have otherwise with smaller differences with each year further out.

My guess is that will be pretty noticeable over the next few years, but I haven't seen any compelling analysis that bounds that function very tightly.

trashcan wrote:

This is not really addressed to LFH, but I think it needs to be said in this context, the issue with vaccine testing was not the duration of the trial, which is standard.

The speed was a result of massive recruitment.

And I always figured H’s discussion of life outside let’s run was trolling BS (admittedly not helpful).

You are far more patient and charitable than I am. I respect that. I can't help but troll sometimes when I am called "psychopathic" and "murderous."

Monkeys typing wrote:

One can both accept that Covid has killed a lot of people and argue less severe social restrictions, but it is telling that virtually everyone arguing for looser restrictions also nonsensically minimizes the death and hospitalization toll of Covid. That suggests the discussion such as it is more dogmatic than it is scientific.

100% agree. Well put

Agree. 100% well put in the covid believer religion sense.

common sense now wrote:

Common Cents wrote:

What is it going to take for Americans to acknowledge that we need a European style lockdown here? 500,000 Americans are now dead due to the irresponsible actions of many. We need to do something immediately before it’s too late!!

i 100% agree.

Trump tried to stop it before it got big here. He banned travel from China but the democrats told us to go eat at China town and ride the subway in NYC.

We had Covid for a year with Trump and only 400,000 died. In less than one month of Biden, we had 100,000 die. Why hasn't he stopped it?

LOL

Why do the Unkles, LFH and #LHRC's of the world always avoid this point? It's blindingly obvious to any sane, reasonably-functioning person with critical thinking skills that there isn't a massive conspiracy here and the medical system has NOTHING to gain by perpetuating a "lie." As we keep saying boys - we'll wait for your response.

The fact that survivability is high is not the only metric to consider. Selfishly focusing on the question of "will I, myself, live or not?" is short sighted when you consider the consequences of short and long term side effects of the illness and your ability to infect someone else more susceptible, through carelessness or inaction. Ultimately, the question is not will you, yourself, survive, but what level of deaths is acceptable from you, your neighbors and your society not wanting to take responsibility and do some small things to protect someone else.

What data or example (besides a hypothetical dream - since Sweden was a swing-and-a-MISSS) indicates that a totally open society where "the sick, compromised just stay home" could function with a highly communicable disease? What is the threshold for acceptable deaths in this scenario? You're not naive enough to assume that there wouldn't be some amount of transmission, nor that there wouldn't still be massive death tolls in nursing homes, etc.

The reality is, despite your desire to demonize someone with an opposite opinion and gain satisfaction from the idea of that person's failure, the "rest of us" want society to back to normal. We want things to be open, businesses to function, families to spend time together and the virus to be controlled. The problem is, most of society is too stupid, selfish or hubristic to take the simple measures to protect each other and keep case levels low.

I know i know... they don't "work," but: masks, social distancing, hand washing, smaller gatherings, a bit of delayed gratification to let the wave crash... Hundreds of millions of people in other countries have proven these measures to work and allow most of their society to return to normal function. But it was too much for the short-sighted western world we live in now, where social media implores me to live and prove that I'm living a better life, no matter what.

I'm not in my basement, I only where a mask when necessary and my life is pretty great - I got the first dose of the vaccine and will get to see family soon, after 8mo of virtual life. I accept that this is a sh^tty, short-term reality the world has to deal with, but I hope and trust it will get better. I'm not looking for answers or grasping at straws to satiate my fears or misunderstandings by pinning the blame on a conspiracy or altier motives to channel my anger toward. n.

I'm curious what level of maturity, positivity and empathy you covid deniers, whiners and bitter, selfish types can step up to when the dust settles? Will this be your opportunity to cast away your burdens, shortcomings and the negativity you've pushed into society? I hope so, because you clowns make a terrible showing for yourselves on the alternate reality we inhabit here on a running forum. Your short time on earth is worth wayyyy more than the bogus and sad narrative you perpetuate here.

Armstronglivs wrote:

The Unkle wrote:

Died "with" Covid.

Not from Covid.

So many doctors, independent of one another, combining nationally to falsify the certificate of cause of death of every individual patient - which they dont apparently do for any other mortality. Just Covid. You have Covid Derangement Syndrome.

Let me try again.

The Covid death numbers we are given are those who died with Covid, not from Covid.

This has zip to do with what doctors are putting as the primary cause of death on death certificates

Doesn't it get boring saying the same things over and over? at least mix it up a little!

Das Unkle wrote:

Armstronglivs wrote:

So many doctors, independent of one another, combining nationally to falsify the certificate of cause of death of every individual patient - which they dont apparently do for any other mortality. Just Covid. You have Covid Derangement Syndrome.

Let me try again.

The Covid death numbers we are given are those who died with Covid, not from Covid.

This has zip to do with what doctors are putting as the primary cause of death on death certificates