Running too fast for everyday miles

You're training just right ?

If you are training for a 100 mile race are you doing super long runs or back to back long days on the weekend? I would assume after big efforts you might want to ease off the pace the following day?

I don't think 7:25ish is too bad, but if you are actually running more at 6:30 that might be too quick.

pavement88 wrote:

If you are training for a 100 mile race are you doing super long runs or back to back long days on the weekend? I would assume after big efforts you might want to ease off the pace the following day?

I don't think 7:25ish is too bad, but if you are actually running more at 6:30 that might be too quick.

My weeks are centered around 3 runs. A mid week mid-long 12-16 and back to back long runs on the weekend . The weekend mileage is 30-50 miles with the longer run on Saturday (peak 31 miles). This weekend was 18 miles (7:10) and 12 miles (7:05). Both comfortable efforts that were unintentional progressions.

Plan on being around 7:20-7:35 on my Saturday runs over 22 miles to increase time on feet. Also avoiding doubles.

i am assuming you are running these paces on road, greenway or double track? is your 100-miler on road or doubletrack?

If it is, this training is superb. Just curious if your event might be a somewhat technical or mountainous trail 100-miler.

thewinthatwas wrote:

I am in the middle of a 13 week training block and running 70-95 mile weeks with cutbacks thrown in. I am training for a 100 mile race so I’m not doing any track workouts or true tempo efforts. I feel like I am running too fast almost all my mileage is 7-7:25 pace but at the end of my runs I always feel very comfortable. I normally end up running 6:30-6:50 pace the last 2-3 miles of my runs without putting in much effort.

I’m only a high 35/16 10k/5k guy so am I running too fast for my level or if I’m comfortable at the end of all my runs is it fine?

Might be best to bounce this off a ultra running site. It seems to me that you would want to run your LRs, more around your expected race pace because everything is different in a 100. You practice running @ race pace, some faster, some slower-we all do. Pro ultra runners do harder training too, hitting all the systems- not just the aerobic.

Here's a guy that is pretty good. I've read some little about his method, and like that he sees the value of starting with the Vo2 max. Not sure if I agree about working one system at a time, but with a higher Vo2 max, you can get more work done with less fatigue.

Have you read up on this or done any 50mile , 100K races? What do experienced ultra runners say? Many, including me, don't know much about Ultras. Seems like about 9-10 min miles is a pretty good average for a 100 miler, and doing a 50 first is smart.

It's all about nutrition, running the same terrain and vert as the course, feet care and being able to take some severe pain and fatigue from what I read. Marathon is as far as I have gone.

Ive done 2 trail marathons and 2 50 mile races. I did my last 50 in 9:5x but it was on very technical terrain (with way too many rocks) with about 5000 ft of elevation gain. This was in October and I was not training for 50 at the time so I was pretty pleased with the result. I will try to hit up more ultra forums but I do not a fair amount of people on this site dabble in these distances. Thanks for your advice and I will look into this method.

These miles are largely on road with the occasional trail or hard incline workout on the treadmill thrown in. Unfortunately, I do not have great trail systems near me so I have to work with what I have right now. The race is on trail but a lot of the trail is runnable. I have ran on the trail before and it is not uncommon to start splitting some quicker miles.

My pace on trail is probably closer to 8:30-10 minutes depending on the segment but if I start running that slow on the road I feel a little unnatural.

Your prs indicate that you are training to fast. I would say 7:30-8:00 pace for most of your mileage. I was a 30:5x and 14:5x guy and those were around my training paces. You dont want to get hurt.

Nope, 6:30 pace for a 16 minute 5k runner is not too fast.

I should add that for ultra training you do need plenty of slow plodding type running. But the couple of miles at 6:30 pace at the end of a run is not an issue at all.

If you're running a pace "without putting in much effort," then you are absolutely not running too fast.

In any event, the paces that you're running are entirely reasonable for someone with your PRs.

thewinthatwas wrote:

These miles are largely on road with the occasional trail or hard incline workout on the treadmill thrown in. Unfortunately, I do not have great trail systems near me so I have to work with what I have right now. The race is on trail but a lot of the trail is runnable. I have ran on the trail before and it is not uncommon to start splitting some quicker miles.

My pace on trail is probably closer to 8:30-10 minutes depending on the segment but if I start running that slow on the road I feel a little unnatural.

Your training sounds pretty ideal, and it seems like you would be in the top few % of ultra runners with that mileage, pace, and PRs. I'm not sure why you are so worried about your training.

My only critique is that a lot of good ultra runners still do intervals and tempos to increase their running efficiency at all paces. Don't neglect speed completely.

I guess you would want to train the fat metabolism to its maximum + running looong. Going to close to your marathon pace would not be optimal, but 6.30-6.50 is to me still well within the aerobic fat metabolic zone.

It's important to run very comfortable at the 100 mile pace, so some relatively fast running is good

Maybe try not to fill the glycogen storage between back to back long runs to simulate depleted race running? You can eat low carb between long run 1 and 2.

I am no ultra expert though.

Thanks. Yeah I can see how speed shouldn't be ignored. The first time I trained for 50 miles was 3 years ago and I did not have the aerobic engine I do now. It was hard for me to increase the mileage and do workouts so ignored the workouts. The past three years I have been putting in consistent mileage and am a lot more fit.

My past 7 days of training have been:

13.1 miles @ 6:51

9 miles @ 7:22

5 miles @ 6:31

18 miles @ 7:11

12 miles @ 7:03

8 miles @ 6:55

15 miles @7:06

All runs have been done the same. Very easy running the first 70-80% of the run and some progression the last part of the run. I did click off a 6:30 and 5:57 for mile 17 and 18 of my longer run and finished the half marathon qt 6:25 pace with the last mile at 6 flat so I do some speed. I could do a dedicated tempo every 10-14 days to specifically check the speed box.

Thanks. I actually do try to avoid carbo loading before long runs. I do not know if it actually helps but I like knowing that my body can work on very little glycogen.

running in the breeze wrote:

Your prs indicate that you are training to fast. I would say 7:30-8:00 pace for most of your mileage. I was a 30:5x and 14:5x guy and those were around my training paces. You dont want to get hurt.

Thanks for the feedback. I do think that I may just be feeling good. The PRs are dated and I think that I am probably closer to 1:17:xx for the half but the point is well taken. In the past I normally feel like I am pushing when I running too fast but everything has felt very comfortable. But do not want to blow up before getting to the race.

What your describing is good. The question is, are you practicing walking and hiking ?

Juice Springsteen wrote:

What your describing is good. The question is, are you practicing walking and hiking ?

I do try to address this. Sometimes I hop on the treadmill and walk on a high incline for 30-45 minutes. I plan on doing this twice a week on top of my running the last 8 weeks leading up to the race. I want to be ready for the tough climbs while still having good form.