Word Salad made into a smoothie.
Word Salad made into a smoothie.
Aragon wrote:
rekrunner wrote:
You are much wiser than I am.
Call it Finnish modesty or just plain honesty, but I am afraid that isn't the case.
When somebody not particularly good-looking is in company with Marty Feldman or Vincent Schiavelli, he looks suddenly very handsome.
When Mr. Mediocrity like me is debating our self-styled go-to guy on anti-doping law with "WADA contacts", even the Mr. Mediocrity is suddenly looking like a reincarnation of Voltaire or the twin-brother of chess master Magnus Carlsen.
I'm afraid you still look like Mr Mediocrity.
rekrunner wrote:
Armstronglivs wrote:
An interesting analogy from one who is color blind.
Ironic from someone, when looking at a bottle of ORANGE, GREEN, and PURPLE pills, only sees RED, while arguing BLACK and WHITE.
Meanwhile, I stopped holding my breath for the list of experts who discuss their findings on the relation between scarcely breathing and powerful effect of EPO.
You don't need a list of experts. You just need to have gone to school. It looks like you missed biology. And art is also clearly not your thing. Is anything?
rekrunner wrote:
Stroke of genius.
More like the onset of Alzheimers.
Sweet pace
how does that work? wrote:
Armstronglivs wrote:
Those last two laps - unbelievable- and scarcely breathing at the finish. Jeezus, EPO is a powerful drug!
But isn't EPO supposed to make you breathe more?
rekrunner wrote:
How is it so hard to understand that the half-marathon and the steeple are less competitive events, because fewer world class athletes try to run fast?
What would that have to do with these "fewer world class athletes" trying to run fast using PEDs? The steeple is still an Olympic event with a gold medal at stake - incentive enough for these "fewer world class athletes" to dope.
rekrunner wrote:
Boulami did not dominate like El Guerrouj in 1500m: 13 out of the top 25, and 33 out of the top 100 (when I counted in 2018). Nor like Komen, nor Geb, nor Bekele.
Boulami's career was cut short with the ban. He was 30 when set the WR and had the IC positive - so he would have had a good 3 or 4 yrs left of high performance, especially on the sauce. Lol. And if you add in Iguider's 2 top times in top 100 and one each from Ramzi, Laâlou & Aouita - Morocco has 37 out of the top 100. And Morocco is a nation with an extremely high prevalence of doping.
rekrunner wrote:
When I say the half-marathon is less competitive, this is not criticizing Kiptum's WR time, but the rest of the world's times. Being #1 in the half-marathon, and #26 in the marathon sorta hammers the point, that the marathon is more competitive, with more athletes trying to run fast times.
...and more doped athletes trying to run fast times. ?
rekrunner wrote:
Once again, your hunch would be wrong -- and I already told you that. If Kiptum and Boulami were not busted, I would truthfully say they were not busted, and you don't know if they doped. From these statements of fact, you should not assume I believe they are clean, because these clear statement of facts do not reveal my opinion.
You're back to your riddles again. Lol. I'll try to decipher: Are you're saying if Kiptum & Boulami weren't busted, you would "truthfully" say they weren't busted but that you would or would not suspect them of doping?
rekrunner wrote:
Similarly, you should not ask why I think all WR performances are clean, as I have never argued this. On the contrary, given some known population prevalence estimates among world championship athletes, it is likely some other WR performances were also doped.
Well then...what WR performances, if any, do you suspect might be doped? You're confusing again because you've said that you believe El G's WR performance is clean despite strong circumstantial evidence to suggest otherwise. So, if you think the 1500 WR is clean why wouldn't you think all other WR performances are clean?
High-Octane Dopers wrote:
rekrunner wrote:
How is it so hard to understand that the half-marathon and the steeple are less competitive events, because fewer world class athletes try to run fast?
What would that have to do with these "fewer world class athletes" trying to run fast using PEDs? The steeple is still an Olympic event with a gold medal at stake - incentive enough for these "fewer world class athletes" to dope.
rekrunner wrote:
Boulami did not dominate like El Guerrouj in 1500m: 13 out of the top 25, and 33 out of the top 100 (when I counted in 2018). Nor like Komen, nor Geb, nor Bekele.
Boulami's career was cut short with the ban. He was 30 when set the WR and had the IC positive - so he would have had a good 3 or 4 yrs left of high performance, especially on the sauce. Lol. And if you add in Iguider's 2 top times in top 100 and one each from Ramzi, Laâlou & Aouita - Morocco has 37 out of the top 100. And Morocco is a nation with an extremely high prevalence of doping.
rekrunner wrote:
When I say the half-marathon is less competitive, this is not criticizing Kiptum's WR time, but the rest of the world's times. Being #1 in the half-marathon, and #26 in the marathon sorta hammers the point, that the marathon is more competitive, with more athletes trying to run fast times.
...and more doped athletes trying to run fast times. ?
rekrunner wrote:
Once again, your hunch would be wrong -- and I already told you that. If Kiptum and Boulami were not busted, I would truthfully say they were not busted, and you don't know if they doped. From these statements of fact, you should not assume I believe they are clean, because these clear statement of facts do not reveal my opinion.
You're back to your riddles again. Lol. I'll try to decipher: Are you're saying if Kiptum & Boulami weren't busted, you would "truthfully" say they weren't busted but that you would or would not suspect them of doping?
rekrunner wrote:
Similarly, you should not ask why I think all WR performances are clean, as I have never argued this. On the contrary, given some known population prevalence estimates among world championship athletes, it is likely some other WR performances were also doped.
Well then...what WR performances, if any, do you suspect might be doped? You're confusing again because you've said that you believe El G's WR performance is clean despite strong circumstantial evidence to suggest otherwise. So, if you think the 1500 WR is clean why wouldn't you think all other WR performances are clean?
I can't wait for the riddles in response.
High-Octane Dopers wrote:
rekrunner wrote:
Once again, your hunch would be wrong -- and I already told you that. If Kiptum and Boulami were not busted, I would truthfully say they were not busted, and you don't know if they doped. From these statements of fact, you should not assume I believe they are clean, because these clear statement of facts do not reveal my opinion.
You're back to your riddles again. Lol. I'll try to decipher: Are you're saying if Kiptum & Boulami weren't busted, you would "truthfully" say they weren't busted but that you would or would not suspect them of doping?
rekrunner wrote:
Similarly, you should not ask why I think all WR performances are clean, as I have never argued this. On the contrary, given some known population prevalence estimates among world championship athletes, it is likely some other WR performances were also doped.
Well then...what WR performances, if any, do you suspect might be doped? You're confusing again because you've said that you believe El G's WR performance is clean despite strong circumstantial evidence to suggest otherwise. So, if you think the 1500 WR is clean why wouldn't you think all other WR performances are clean?
I think you are asking the wrong questions. I don't find pure speculation interesting or relevant, as without sufficient facts, the answer is just a personal projection of a collection of beliefs looking for confirmation.
It seems you often base your "suspicion" on two factors: 1) performances are fast; and 2) a high national prevalence.
1) I do not suspect fast performances are doped, simply because they are fast. This is a kind of reverse logic that argues because doping can improve performance (something doping research strives to "prove"), that improved performances indicate doping (a question largely unaddressed by researchers).
2) If we use national prevalence as a basis of suspicion, then I suspect doping is distributed across the whole population of slow, medium, and fast performers/performances, but would be unable or unwilling to provide any precision beyond pure speculation. Knowing a group is "30%" doesn't help me decide which 30% are doped.
I find these questions more important:
- What are the many factors that cause world record performances?
- Can these factors be achieved legally, without doping?
When you frame all of your questions relative to doping, you will only find answers related to doping. This framing eventually causes a biased perspective, and you will begin to see doping everywhere, e.g. in the "scarcely breathing" of El G, and in other world record performances.
When you frame the question in terms of causes of performance, it is not settled whether doping, while it is unarguably present in many performances, is a necessary part of observed performances.
how does that work? wrote:
how does that work? wrote:
But isn't EPO supposed to make you breathe more?
Ah but you can't use that as an argument because drugs have no effect at all according to you.
Tom Cochrane wrote:
how does that work? wrote:
Ah but you can't use that as an argument because drugs have no effect at all according to you.
It's a rhetorical question.
rekrunner wrote:
High-Octane Dopers wrote:
You're back to your riddles again. Lol. I'll try to decipher: Are you're saying if Kiptum & Boulami weren't busted, you would "truthfully" say they weren't busted but that you would or would not suspect them of doping?
Well then...what WR performances, if any, do you suspect might be doped? You're confusing again because you've said that you believe El G's WR performance is clean despite strong circumstantial evidence to suggest otherwise. So, if you think the 1500 WR is clean why wouldn't you think all other WR performances are clean?
I think you are asking the wrong questions. I don't find pure speculation interesting or relevant, as without sufficient facts, the answer is just a personal projection of a collection of beliefs looking for confirmation.
It seems you often base your "suspicion" on two factors: 1) performances are fast; and 2) a high national prevalence.
1) I do not suspect fast performances are doped, simply because they are fast. This is a kind of reverse logic that argues because doping can improve performance (something doping research strives to "prove"), that improved performances indicate doping (a question largely unaddressed by researchers).
2) If we use national prevalence as a basis of suspicion, then I suspect doping is distributed across the whole population of slow, medium, and fast performers/performances, but would be unable or unwilling to provide any precision beyond pure speculation. Knowing a group is "30%" doesn't help me decide which 30% are doped.
I find these questions more important:
- What are the many factors that cause world record performances?
- Can these factors be achieved legally, without doping?
When you frame all of your questions relative to doping, you will only find answers related to doping. This framing eventually causes a biased perspective, and you will begin to see doping everywhere, e.g. in the "scarcely breathing" of El G, and in other world record performances.
When you frame the question in terms of causes of performance, it is not settled whether doping, while it is unarguably present in many performances, is a necessary part of observed performances.
He isn't asking "the wrong questions"; they are just questions you can't answer.
You say, "when you frame all your questions relative to doping you will only find answers related to doping" - well, yes, that is the question, as the subject is doping - but it isn't a question you want to answer in the affirmative in respect of any runner and especially El G. In fact you will do anything to avoid doing so - including verbally disappearing up your own backside, so to speak.
You simply frame all your questions on the assumed absence of doping - and ensure you arrive undisturbed at the same conclusion.
But here is the question posed above that addresses a previous point you made. It is worth restating, even if you will sell your mother to avoid answering it.
Well then...what WR performances, if any, do you suspect might be doped? You're confusing again because you've said that you believe El G's WR performance is clean despite strong circumstantial evidence to suggest otherwise. So, if you think the 1500 WR is clean why wouldn't you think all other WR performances are clean?[/quote]
Quite.
how does that work? wrote:
Tom Cochrane wrote:
Ah but you can't use that as an argument because drugs have no effect at all according to you.
It's a rhetorical question.
No, it's a dumb question - because the answer is no. But don't let that stop you asking your dumb questions; you have nothing else.
Armstronglivs wrote:
He isn't asking "the wrong questions"; they are just questions you can't answer.
You say, "when you frame all your questions relative to doping you will only find answers related to doping" - well, yes, that is the question, as the subject is doping - but it isn't a question you want to answer in the affirmative in respect of any runner and especially El G. In fact you will do anything to avoid doing so - including verbally disappearing up your own backside, so to speak.
You simply frame all your questions on the assumed absence of doping - and ensure you arrive undisturbed at the same conclusion.
But here is the question posed above that addresses a previous point you made. It is worth restating, even if you will sell your mother to avoid answering it.
Well then...what WR performances, if any, do you suspect might be doped? You're confusing again because you've said that you believe El G's WR performance is clean despite strong circumstantial evidence to suggest otherwise. So, if you think the 1500 WR is clean why wouldn't you think all other WR performances are clean?
Quite.[/quote]
When the question is "what do I think about suspicion", I certainly can answer.
The subject of this thread is one WR "performance", and not "doping".
I have considered all the "circumstantial evidence" and would disagree it is "strong".
Sorry I didn't fix the mismatch quotes from Armstronglivs.
rekrunner wrote:
Quite.
When the question is "what do I think about suspicion", I certainly can answer.
The subject of this thread is one WR "performance", and not "doping".
I have considered all the "circumstantial evidence" and would disagree it is "strong".[/quote]
The title is but the subject really isn't at this point. Try to keep up.
Of course you would.
Armstronglivs wrote:
how does that work? wrote:
It's a rhetorical question.
No, it's a dumb question - because the answer is no. But don't let that stop you asking your dumb questions; you have nothing else.
So how does EPO doping make you suck more oxygen while breathing less air?
How does that work?
Tom Cochrane wrote:
rekrunner wrote:
The subject of this thread is one WR "performance", and not "doping".
The title is but the subject really isn't at this point. Try to keep up.
Actually, I was being asked how I would explain "WR performances" absent doping busts.
how does that work? wrote:
Armstronglivs wrote:
No, it's a dumb question - because the answer is no. But don't let that stop you asking your dumb questions; you have nothing else.
So how does EPO doping make you suck more oxygen while breathing less air?
How does that work?
Those are dumb questions too.
rekrunner wrote:
Tom Cochrane wrote:
The title is but the subject really isn't at this point. Try to keep up.
Actually, I was being asked how I would explain "WR performances" absent doping busts.
Which is not the title.
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