Just checked his time, and it's a pretty amazing performance in that he basically ran a 3:48 1600, and still went on to run an other lap at the same pace.
(No idea what his split times were, but that's the pace based on his time : 4:44:79).
Just checked his time, and it's a pretty amazing performance in that he basically ran a 3:48 1600, and still went on to run an other lap at the same pace.
(No idea what his split times were, but that's the pace based on his time : 4:44:79).
3:49.60 at 1600m as per the broadcast.
Have always E-G's 2k WR is on par w/Komen's 3k WR -- 2 secs up on 2nd best ever in 2k, 3 secs up on 2nd best ever in 3k.
By these standards, Jacob I's 4:50 2k back in June should have gotten more notice for how brilliant it was.
Bower Man wrote:
Have always E-G's 2k WR is on par w/Komen's 3k WR -- 2 secs up on 2nd best ever in 2k, 3 secs up on 2nd best ever in 3k.
By these standards, Jacob I's 4:50 2k back in June should have gotten more notice for how brilliant it was.
I think at some point in his career Jakob will do something astonishing. Difficult to predict, but I would not be completely surprised if he were to break Komen's record on a perfect day. Norway is strong in the 3000m at the moment, with at least 8 non-Ingebrigtsen sub 8 runners, and if for example the Bislett games was set up as a record attempt, it might be able to be pulled off. Jakob has an unusual blend of aerobic/threshold strength combined with middle distance speed that should be perfect for the 3000m at this point in his career.
Bower Man wrote:
Have always E-G's 2k WR is on par w/Komen's 3k WR -- 2 secs up on 2nd best ever in 2k, 3 secs up on 2nd best ever in 3k.
By these standards, Jacob I's 4:50 2k back in June should have gotten more notice for how brilliant it was.
John Walker ran 4:51 off of a 3:32 PR so Jacob's 4:50 is not as impressive given he has run 3:28.
Quality wise, Hicham El Guerrouj's 1500, mile and 2000 records are virtually identical.
Hmm09 wrote:
Just checked his time, and it's a pretty amazing performance in that he basically ran a 3:48 1600, and still went on to run an other lap at the same pace.
(No idea what his split times were, but that's the pace based on his time : 4:44:79).
Sounds about right. El G without EPO was probably a 3:49 miler, but the EPO allowed him to run an extra lap at his natural pace.
SDSU Aztec wrote:
Bower Man wrote:
Have always E-G's 2k WR is on par w/Komen's 3k WR -- 2 secs up on 2nd best ever in 2k, 3 secs up on 2nd best ever in 3k.
By these standards, Jacob I's 4:50 2k back in June should have gotten more notice for how brilliant it was.
John Walker ran 4:51 off of a 3:32 PR so Jacob's 4:50 is not as impressive given he has run 3:28.
Quality wise, Hicham El Guerrouj's 1500, mile and 2000 records are virtually identical.
John Walker's 2,000m record was set in sub optimal conditions, it was windy and raining at Crystal Palace. It was his best performance and clear evidence he could have run faster than 3:49 for the mile.
Just a brilliant race for El Guerrouj. He runs 1:52 for the last 800m. I think that Cheruiyot and Ingebrigtsen at their best next year might get close to Morceli's previous world record at 4:47. 4:44.79 is hard to fathom. It's rare nowadays that any pace makers get to 2k under 5 in 3k attempts. The leader in the Kiplimo/Ingebrigtsen 3000m in Rome was just 4:59.47 at 2k this year, and that ended up at 7:26.64, a DL record. El Guerrouj ran 7:23 a few days before his 2k record, but the latter suggests that he could have broken 7:20.
Subway Surfers wrote:
SDSU Aztec wrote:
John Walker ran 4:51 off of a 3:32 PR so Jacob's 4:50 is not as impressive given he has run 3:28.
Quality wise, Hicham El Guerrouj's 1500, mile and 2000 records are virtually identical.
John Walker's 2,000m record was set in sub optimal conditions, it was windy and raining at Crystal Palace. It was his best performance and clear evidence he could have run faster than 3:49 for the mile.
I'm impressed that you would know the weather conditions for the race. At the time, the only source of information for T&F results in Europe was TF&N.
Walker didn't have the top-end speed of guys like Ovett and Coe so I believe 3:49 was a good time for him.
wegvewg wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jsr0mZiRbNw3:49.60 at 1600m as per the broadcast.
Those last two laps - unbelievable- and scarcely breathing at the finish. Jeezus, EPO is a powerful drug!
SDSU Aztec wrote:
Walker didn't have the top-end speed of guys like Ovett and Coe so I believe 3:49 was a good time for him.
Well he had an 800m pb 1 1/2 seconds faster than Jakob and ran a 3:49.08 mile at age 30 when well past his best, so I think it's reasonable for Subway to claim that he could have gone quite a bit faster.
wegvewg wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jsr0mZiRbNw3:49.60 at 1600m as per the broadcast.
And picked up in the last 400 meters so he did average a 3:48 1600 meters. (3:49 mile?)
Armstronglivs wrote:
wegvewg wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jsr0mZiRbNw3:49.60 at 1600m as per the broadcast.
Those last two laps - unbelievable- and scarcely breathing at the finish. Jeezus, EPO is a powerful drug!
But isn't EPO supposed to make you breathe more?
SDSU Aztec wrote:
Subway Surfers wrote:
John Walker's 2,000m record was set in sub optimal conditions, it was windy and raining at Crystal Palace. It was his best performance and clear evidence he could have run faster than 3:49 for the mile.
I'm impressed that you would know the weather conditions for the race. At the time, the only source of information for T&F results in Europe was TF&N.
Walker didn't have the top-end speed of guys like Ovett and Coe so I believe 3:49 was a good time for him.
For a start, the most obvious display of someone on EPO (and probably other things too) on the record books. It is an 'unbelievable' performance because it is doped. As were his other WRs and the 3000m by Komen.
Secondly, there is a publication in the UK called Athletics Weekly, that has been providing stats, results and data for the UK and Europe (and indeed further afield), since 1945!
how does that work? wrote:
Armstronglivs wrote:
Those last two laps - unbelievable- and scarcely breathing at the finish. Jeezus, EPO is a powerful drug!
But isn't EPO supposed to make you breathe more?
Less. You have more oxygen in your bloodstream.
Deanouk wrote:
For a start, the most obvious display of someone on EPO (and probably other things too) on the record books. It is an 'unbelievable' performance because it is doped. As were his other WRs and the 3000m by Komen.
Secondly, there is a publication in the UK called Athletics Weekly, that has been providing stats, results and data for the UK and Europe (and indeed further afield), since 1945!
Yup...watched Hicham's world record mile on youtube. Obvious.
Komen no different.
Aouita as well.
Starting as a high quality 5k runner, then suddenly emerging as one of the greatest 800m or 1500m runners in the world is typical of PEDs, but not the only scenarios.
I've stood next to world class track athletes.
As a general observation, they are much thinner than one might expect watching a video.
There is muscle and sinew upon a skeleton.
PEDs make the thin runners able to run with more power and sustain the pace. Some look like muscle was added to the body, rather than natural development, because their body frames are so small.
Run with high turnover and without power, or run with power and the slower turnover. Take it out fast to tire those with power, or risk being out-sprinted.
This classic trade-off was removed, and everybody was running ridiculous paces, like
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XvCsj7eJKKAI also saw that with Viren, who would run relatively slow during the track seasons, and in a short time period he would then have speed and pace at the world class level.
Subway Surfers wrote:
John Walker's 2,000m record was set in sub optimal conditions, it was windy and raining at Crystal Palace. It was his best performance and clear evidence he could have run faster than 3:49 for the mile.
It's not clear evidence he could have run faster for the mile and the 2000 record was not run at CP. Typical letsrun quality post.
Just a little bit better quality, if needed
yhwh wrote:
Deanouk wrote:
For a start, the most obvious display of someone on EPO (and probably other things too) on the record books. It is an 'unbelievable' performance because it is doped. As were his other WRs and the 3000m by Komen.
Secondly, there is a publication in the UK called Athletics Weekly, that has been providing stats, results and data for the UK and Europe (and indeed further afield), since 1945!
Yup...watched Hicham's world record mile on youtube. Obvious.
Komen no different.
Aouita as well.
Starting as a high quality 5k runner, then suddenly emerging as one of the greatest 800m or 1500m runners in the world is typical of PEDs, but not the only scenarios.
I've stood next to world class track athletes.
As a general observation, they are much thinner than one might expect watching a video.
There is muscle and sinew upon a skeleton.
PEDs make the thin runners able to run with more power and sustain the pace. Some look like muscle was added to the body, rather than natural development, because their body frames are so small.
Run with high turnover and without power, or run with power and the slower turnover. Take it out fast to tire those with power, or risk being out-sprinted.
This classic trade-off was removed, and everybody was running ridiculous paces, like
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XvCsj7eJKKAI also saw that with Viren, who would run relatively slow during the track seasons, and in a short time period he would then have speed and pace at the world class level.
Viren while not on epo was blood doping. Same with the USA cycling team in 1984. I get the years mixed up but do not think it was illegal or even frowned upon at the time. Totally naïve to the dark side of the sport we would run our workouts and dream of pushing like Hicham and Komen, Wish I understood the science better of why some folks respond to the juice better than others.
Armstronglivs wrote:
how does that work? wrote:
But isn't EPO supposed to make you breathe more?
Less. You have more oxygen in your bloodstream.
Which has to be extracted from the air by breathing more, not less.