Adjusted for era, who is REALLY the greatest American marathoner?

His places happened with slower competition.

Hall's Olympic marathon PR is still only 1:30 slower than his best ever.

Meb is 2-3 minutes slower than even that.

Hall made others beat him in fifth gear whereas Meb won in fourth.

Bill Rodgers ran 2:08.23 in a Marathon in Japan, but it was 100-200 short.

Here is his list of Marathons (At Bottom)

http://www.jackdogwelch.com/?p=20411

Amazingly Rodgers won 4 Boston's, and 4 New York Marathons, which is more than every active American Marathoner combined.

Clarence Demar won 7 Boston's which American Man will be the first to win 8? The American Man who will win 8 Boston Marathon's is probably not even in College yet.

Stoppit Smith wrote:

His places happened with slower competition.

The Olympics?

Stoppit Smith wrote:

Hall's Olympic marathon PR is still only 1:30 slower than his best ever.

Meb is 2-3 minutes slower than even that.

Sorry, what? This is totally false.

Stoppit Smith wrote:

Ryan Hall.

Easily.

First marathoner that made the fastest African runners really have to be on their A+ game.

Nobody mentioned previously had the level of African competition thrown at him like Hall

After getting to the current end of the thread, I noticed it was Meb vs Hall for a while. I have to agree with the Hall side. Look at Shorter. He never raced Mosop on the very best day of his career. He certainly never beat guys like that: either Mutai, Haile, Tergat, whoever. Nor would have have been within several minutes of any of the top East Africans, given that they are in their primes (as they were when Hall raced them) of the last few decades.

Meb 'appeared' in a lot of races. (Appeared was the term used by the Meb Fan Club referring to Rio. He really was the only USA embarrassment in that race.) He would have been dead last in some if there weren't paid amateurs behind him, like NYC. Meb beating weak fields is less impressive than a 4th place minutes faster on the same course. Keep in mind Rupp's watered-down-by-Nike-who-is-the-primary-funder-of-the-race Chicago was quite a bit slower than Hall's 2:08:08. That's just another of Hall's races, certainly not one of the first 3 any fan would mention.

OK, Meb vs Hall - I just told you where I come down there - is a non-sequiter to the real answer. Sure, Hall and Meb are both top-10, as is JBS. The answer to the OP's question is Deena. No handicapping nor adjustment needed. No percentage for shoes: oh, her times is WORTH how many ever minutes (it's slightly less than a minute-and-a-half for both Kipchoge and Bekele, that test has already been done) faster. None of the old 'but this was in 1976!' arguments apply. She is LITERALLY the American Record holder. Not withstanding decades passing, shoes, lighter wristwatches, or any of the changes the thread has gone on about, no American - neither native-born nor Kenyan mercenaries (another debate entirely, admittedly, hashed out in many threads) has run faster.

Deena Kastor.

John Wesley Harding wrote:

Stoppit Smith wrote:

Hall's Olympic marathon PR is still only 1:30 slower than his best ever.

Meb is 2-3 minutes slower than even that.

Sorry, what? This is totally false.

Stoppit may have meant his Trials Record???

Getting 4th in a huge tailwind year a couple minutes behind the winners is not better than winning it in 2:08. Hall was in the races where Meb won Boston and NYC - if he was better then he should have some wins, and certainly more than a singular 3rd place as his only podium.

Stoppit Smith wrote:

I like Meb. He's my favorite marathoner of all time.

But his best is about 5 minutes slower than Hall's

Hall took third at Boston on a day where first and second had unprecedented times. And lost by only a minute

Because of a massive tailwind on a non-legal course. That's why Hall's 2:04:58 has an asterisk in his WA profile. Except when he ran against only US competition, can we ever be sure Hall ran to win? We can be sure with Meb. Ditto Rodgers and Shorter.

douglas burke wrote:

Here is his list of Marathons (At Bottom)

http://www.jackdogwelch.com/?p=20411

Amazingly Rodgers won 4 Boston's, and 4 New York Marathons, which is more than every active American Marathoner combined.

Clarence Demar won 7 Boston's which American Man will be the first to win 8? The American Man who will win 8 Boston Marathon's is probably not even in College yet.

That will never happen in this day and age. That is what makes what Shorter did special. Shorter & Rodgers together sum up the conversation, IMO.

My opinion:

1st Frank Shorter

2nd Bill Rodgers

3rd Galen Rupp

mask off wrote:

Shorter, should of had two Golds but Waldemar who? (who was probably on the East German Juice), got the gold.

Yeah, the magic shoes and tracks lights are a joke. They need to put an * by each record with either.

Yes, Frank Shorter is missing in this list. If they would have caught Waldemar Cerpinski of doping he would have gotten two Olympic Gold medals.

Frank Shorter here wrote:

mask off wrote:

Shorter, should of had two Golds but Waldemar who? (who was probably on the East German Juice), got the gold.

Yeah, the magic shoes and tracks lights are a joke. They need to put an * by each record with either.

Yes, Frank Shorter is missing in this list. If they would have caught Waldemar Cerpinski of doping he would have gotten two Olympic Gold medals.

Hi Frank! ?

Rodgers was great but Shorter is the correct answer. Olympic gold and silver to a doper Trumps all else.

I think the only argument against that could be that he was before the rise of the East Africans and the track was still more prestigious than the marathon. Meb won a silver and 2 majors in a much tougher era.

There is no argument for Rupp.

agc5k wrote:

My opinion:

1st Frank Shorter

2nd Bill Rodgers

3rd Galen Rupp

What about the last American to run A World Record Marathon? Khanouchi He has run under 2:06 3x with 2:05.38 his best. and his 7th best time is 2:07.19

Salazar

Rupp

Rodgers

Shorter

Edelen

DeMar

Hall

Michelsen

Hayes

Beardsley

Kardong

Moore

Meb

I would say Joan Benoit ranks pretty high.

........ wrote:

I would say Joan Benoit ranks pretty high.

On the women's side for sure!

I would say Lagat running 2:12 at the age of 44 is as great a performance in terms of time that any American has achieved.