Im reading Bill Rogers autobiography, and it has made me realize that Bill was a BEAST. He ran 2:09.27 in Boston, which puts him right up there with Scott Fauble and Jared Ward, but 40 years ago. Since then training, nutrition and equipment are obviously much improved. If Bill rodgers had a pair of alpha flys and you put him on that berlin course on a perfect day, what would he run? I think he could break 2:07.
Dick Beardsly and ALberto Salazar both ran 2:08 at boston. Greg Meyer ran 209 flat. Get these guys some vaporflys, perfect pacing, that special maurten drink mix, and I think you would see some special times.
Even as recently as Ryan Hall, he ran 206 in london. If he had the magic shoes I bet he could run close to 204 high.
Adjusted for era, who is REALLY the greatest American marathoner?
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When your post doesn’t even mention Shorter, why even bother making this thread?
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golden man wrote:
When your post doesn’t even mention Shorter, why even bother making this thread?
Or Meb. Silver and 4th in Olympic Marathons eight years apart, and then another Olympic appearance four years later. And winning New York and Boston in very competitive eras.
Joanie and Deena are among the best ever, too. -
ok yeah, shorter is a legend, but Rogers had a faster PR in the same era. Times kinda matter.
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Shorter, should of had two Golds but Waldemar who? (who was probably on the East German Juice), got the gold.
Yeah, the magic shoes and tracks lights are a joke. They need to put an * by each record with either. -
Times pale in comparison to Olympic medals.
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should be studying 102 wrote:
ok yeah, shorter is a legend, but Rogers had a faster PR in the same era. Times kinda matter.
In the Shorter-Rodgers era time did not matter nearly as much as people make of them today. Places and wins were what counted and none as much as the Olympics and Fukuoka. Boston was probably third in terms of importance. -
Joanie has far and away the best combination of results that need no or minimal era-adjustment (Boston wins, Chicago win, Olympic Trials win, and Olympic gold) and those that do (times, which at the time were World Records and are still shockingly high on the all-time US lists). Shorter, on the strength of his accolades that need no or minimal era-adjusting (Fukuoka wins, Olympic win and silver-that-should’ve been a win) is the only one in the same league, but although he was a racer and not a time-chaser his never even scaring, let alone holding the WR and his 2:10:30 PR (for a career stretching into the ‘80s) have to be held against him.
Gold: Joanie
Silver: Shorter
In the running for Bronze: Rodgers, Meb, Deena, Khalid Kannouchi, and Buddy Edelen. -
HRE wrote:
should be studying 102 wrote:
ok yeah, shorter is a legend, but Rogers had a faster PR in the same era. Times kinda matter.
In the Shorter-Rodgers era time did not matter nearly as much as people make of them today. Places and wins were what counted and none as much as the Olympics and Fukuoka. Boston was probably third in terms of importance.
Abebe Bikila won gold and broke the world record by 1 sec and Olympic record of Emil Zatopek by 8 minutes in '60 running barefoot in Rome. He won by 4 minutes.
Abebe Bikila won gold and broke the world record by 1 min 40 sec in '64 Tokyo Olympics, running with shoes in 2:12+, to beat his own Olympic record by 3 min. He won by 2 minutes.
There is footage of Bikila when he finished the Tokyo marathon: he started doing calisthenics.
Sure, Frank Shorter was great and medals mattered more than times. He won 72 by 2 minutes, and should have gotten a 2nd gold except for the East German links to doping in 76. He beat Abebe Bikila's Olympic record by two minutes in 72, but the world record was 2:08+ by 72.
Courses differ, and can have an effect on the time, but I think Bikila was the greatest if adjusting for era. -
Ryan Hall.
Easily.
First marathoner that made the fastest African runners really have to be on their A+ game.
Nobody mentioned previously had the level of African competition thrown at him like Hall -
I don't usually post replies like this, but please learn to read.
The question the OP posed (and title of the thread) was "greatest American marathoner." -
Stoppit Smith wrote:
Ryan Hall.
Easily.
First marathoner that made the fastest African runners really have to be on their A+ game.
Nobody mentioned previously had the level of African competition thrown at him like Hall
Except there was another American runner in many of the same marathons as Hall that actually won some. -
Bill Rodgers for the men.
Joan Benoit Samuelson for the women. -
golden man wrote:
When your post doesn’t even mention Shorter, why even bother making this thread?
Shorter was born in West Germany. -
If Shorter's father was military, then his West Germany birth on the base still makes him American.
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Man Overboard wrote:
golden man wrote:
When your post doesn’t even mention Shorter, why even bother making this thread?
Shorter was born in West Germany.
I’m aware. -
Bikila? Sure, except the thread title is asking about American marathoners.
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JBS
EOT -
Stoppit Smith wrote:
Ryan Hall.
Easily.
First marathoner that made the fastest African runners really have to be on their A+ game.
Nobody mentioned previously had the level of African competition thrown at him like Hall
Meb above Hall -
I like Meb. He's my favorite marathoner of all time.
But his best is about 5 minutes slower than Hall's
Hall took third at Boston on a day where first and second had unprecedented times. And lost by only a minute
