Why don't vdot training paces match race time?

Don't know why either. I'm in the UK, I'd never do a 5K in XC. They are not precise measurements and are usually 6 or 8K for women. They are also hilly and muddy as hell in the winter.

Literally no races near me so far as I can see and I'm not great at time trials ... I will have to wait and hope I stay healthy/injury free.

If parkruns start up I would be able to find a decent flat tarmac course. My K reps are on the track though.

Thanks for the other comments, I'm taking it all on board.

old hand wrote:

Of course "highhoppingworm" is right that at some point the workout is so fast that it's suggestive of much faster race times, even if she's "racing" the workout and even though the workout is not a "predictor" workout. I coach HS girls and there's no way that my typical 19:15-level runners can manage 5 x 1000 w/ 2 min rest at 3:32. That's flying.

Plus the OP already said that she is a 35 year old woman with a lot of experience and very little natural speed. She's hardly an anaerobic monster.

OP, any training issues aside, you need to go find a race or TT and update your 5k time. You might be pleasantly surprised.

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It isn't so much she is an anaerobic monster as she is aerobically deficient. I bet her mile time is better than her 5000m team even with "poor" speed on the VDOT tables. That is true for pretty much everyone who is running 30mpw. At a high level, the shorter the workout lengths, the easier it is to run them too hard. If you are doing 5x1000, you can do them at 3k pace instead of 5k pace and just overtrain a bit. Try doing 3x1600 at 3k pace instead of 5k pace and it is unlikely you can finish that 3rd rep.

Realistically until the OP goes out and runs a time trial, we are all guessing. Maybe she is in 18:20 shape so the workout is pretty close (combo of 20-50% more mileage and some workouts give you a nice PR). Maybe she is just a workout warrior who is hammering them all too hard. Set up a time trial and find out.

I used to live in the UK and when I joined a club after many years of running I was surprised at the pace I could run on the track. It was a new track and all the various workouts we did came I would run around 3:20 min/k.

However in a race I never got near 16:40 for 5k at that time.

Now I do my intervals on the road and it there is a significantly closer correlation between the on pace of an interval for effort and a race.

18minwannabe wrote:

I've been training more than I ever have done and more consistently - I absolutely know I'm in the best shape I've ever been in, based on previous training times. I'm certain I'm in sub 19 shape, I just don't know how much under.

That's what we all say...

Luckily for you, there is a very simple way to figure out if you are in sub-19 shape: It looks like it's TIME TRIAL TIME baby! Oh yeah!

I am not sure whether you understand now what you overlooked.. Do you have the book? There is a section there with a table where you can find out your current vdot number based on a current race result. Take that VDOT number and check the corresponding training paces in a differnt table. I think you will then realize that your current pace you use for these workouts are much faster than Daniels advises to use.

She is ready to race much faster than before?

conorsleith wrote:

Daniels' whole training philosophy revolves around selecting workout paces based on current fitness, as measured by a race or time trial. You're doing it backwards.

This^, you have it backwards. VDot is determined by most recent race.

Bela wrote:

I am not sure whether you understand now what you overlooked.. Do you have the book? There is a section there with a table where you can find out your current vdot number based on a current race result. Take that VDOT number and check the corresponding training paces in a differnt table. I think you will then realize that your current pace you use for these workouts are much faster than Daniels advises to use.

I do understand, I never overlooked anything. I know how the book is meant to be used, it's falling apart I have read it so much. I have already explained why I used it this way.

Don’t listen to all the haters. You shouldn’t be wed to paces like some albatross around your neck just because you don’t have a recent race result that validates it. Yes you may be a bit fast even for your current fitness but I am with the 1-2 others that think you are ready to pop a big PR. I’d wager you are in 18:15-18:30 shape. Go give it a shot!

I mean come on guys, even Daniels says a person can improve 3 VDOT points within a single cycle if my memory serves me correctly. I don’t believe the intention is to be quite as mechanical about training paces as you are presenting.

The good news is that you won't believe how great it feels to run the workouts at the right pace. Improvement will come faster and you'll feel fresher every day.

If by pace you mean effort then I agree.

highhoppingworm wrote:

I don’t believe the intention is to be quite as mechanical about training paces as you are presenting.

Completely agree with this.

OP, hope you come back whenever you get to take a shot and share how it went!

Coach watching wrote:

Do you race 5k at an even pace? Guessing you normally go out too fast. If not, you are a weak racer. Racing is hard and you may just be willing to go all out.

Going out too fast could also mean she has no clue how to race properly.