Friend Going Down on Arm Robbery because his lawyer wont listen to me!

Why did your friend steal someone's arm?

He wanted to bear it, as is his right.

Mosby wrote:

Why was he arrested? You claim his innocence, but can you give reason for his initial arrest?

Rainy Day wrote:

This. How do you know he was innocent?

Unless there were multiple eyewitnesses that all said he did it, it doesn’t seem like enough evidence.

Something doesn’t add up here.

Hobbling wrote:

What about if OP did the armed robbery himself? Or his GF...

Mosby wrote:

Why was he arrested? You claim his innocence, but can you give reason for his initial arrest?

Rainy Day wrote:

This. How do you know he was innocent?

Unless there were multiple eyewitnesses that all said he did it, it doesn’t seem like enough evidence.

Something doesn’t add up here.

Hobbling wrote:

What about if OP did the armed robbery himself? Or his GF...

What if it was the attorney who did it!

OK. First mistake you made is coming to this board for advice. With that in mind, the following is not to be construed as legal advice because I have no idea what state or even nation your friend is charged in and I am only licensed in one state and two federal courts. These are just some pointers.

That said, I am not a very good runner but I am a pretty good criminal defense attorney. I don't know what you wrote on the motion to suppress the lineup ID, but you are at least on the right track by wanting his attorney to move to suppress it.

First, be aware that even your friends may lie to you about whether they did or did not do a certain action. Sad, but true.

Second, if you are accepting jail calls from your friend, be aware that not only are they all recorded but prosecutors really do listen to them and mine them for potentially incriminating information. They will fold, spindle, and mutilate anything they can. So don't be asking him all this stuff on the phone.

Third, attacking a lineup ID is not a simplistic thing. Westlaw is great, but do you know how to Shepardize or otherwise confirm that what you are looking at is still good law? Do you know the requirements for a valid lineup ID? You really want someone answering those questions who can be held responsible for knowing the answers.

I could go on, but I would suggest that if counsel is retained that your friend write him/her a letter asking all the questions he has relating to his case. He has the right to terminate the attorney. Don't even ask me if he can get his money back, because I don't know. That depends on a lot of factors. If he has a public defender, he may be stuck. He will have to take up his dissatisfaction with the court.

This. Also, a Motion to Suppress is assuming he wasn't notified of his right to have counsel present at the line up. Maybe he did and stupidly agreed to the line up. But yeah, he can fire his lawyer. Appointed or paid for. If he has the money he needs to hire a lawyer. Appointed lawyers are great in a lot of cities. In others they are so swamped they are going to push plea deals. Whereas a retained lawyer worth their money will file everything. One to push even better deals, two to prep for trial, and three to make a case for an appeal if the worst case scenario happens.

Steeple and notafraidofyou - well said.

I have only dealt with white collar crime issues connected with federal financial assistance or government contracts, but one point to make echoes notafraidofyou's point regarding the possibility of a defending lying. People lie frequently, and especially when they are in trouble, even when faced with substantial evidence. In fact, I think it makes no sense for the original poster to get involved other than to suggest that the defendant consider new counsel.

dude, your gf should not be giving you her office password to west law, that could be considered theft

Suspects do not have the right to a lawyer @ live line-ups that are conducted pre-arraignment. They don't have the right to a lawyer @ live line-ups post arraignment as well but the DA will usually contact and invite the lawyer to the line-up any way as a courtesy. Case won't get kicked for this reason.

something is wrong wrote:

Steeple and notafraidofyou - well said.

I have only dealt with white collar crime issues connected with federal financial assistance or government contracts, but one point to make echoes notafraidofyou's point regarding the possibility of a defending lying. People lie frequently, and especially when they are in trouble, even when faced with substantial evidence. In fact, I think it makes no sense for the original poster to get involved other than to suggest that the defendant consider new counsel.

All these posters have said great stuff. Most importantly, you friend should hire a new attorney, and a good one. If necessary, spend every possible cent on the best criminal defense attorney possible. Instead of having your GF give you her WL password, she should has asked an attorney at her firm “what criminal defense attorney would you pick if one of your family members was charged with a serious crime?” Even transactional attorneys know which criminal lawyers to call in a tight spot. If your friend doesn’t have money for a lawyer, they need to borrow money. A charge, conviction, and prison time of this type ruins lives.

I don’t see it as a huge red flag that the attorney wouldn’t file your motion to dismiss. Most wont file something they didn’t write. I think there is more to this case than a shoddy lineup.

Are you sure you saw all the discovery? Does your friend have really bad criminal history or past that could screw him at trial or non-plea sentencing?

A court-appointed lawyer I'd bet. Without exception they will always want plea the case down. They don't care squat about their clients, only about their won/loss record.

I also think that there is more than the line up weighing against the poster's friend. He was arrested before the line up, so the Police think they have some evidence.

BangDingOw wrote:

A court-appointed lawyer I'd bet. Without exception they will always want plea the case down. They don't care squat about their clients, only about their won/loss record.

Y’all should really stop trying to be armchair lawyers because there is a ton of absolutely awful advice on this thread. Also, in my experience, public defenders are much more likely to go to trial than private attorneys and care about their clients much more. PD’s aren’t getting paid any more for any client and usually want to “win” the case under any circumstances.

Oh, and the best defense attorneys aren’t always the most expensive. The best defense attorneys I’ve seen have usually been reasonable in price while the most expensive ones are just good manipulators.

Anyone who says that this guy needs a new and better lawyer should really go ahead and explain how his current lawyer has misapplied the law or is providing bad legal advice. Just because it’s not what someone wants to hear doesn’t mean it’s bad legal advice. In fact, that’s why defense attorneys are more likely to get harmed by defendants than the prosecutors on the case - the defense attorneys sell them false hope, sometimes even “guaranteeing” a dismissal or something.

Go to law school, get a job in criminal law, practice a few years, and then go ahead and give advice.

Maybe the only evidence law enforcement has is the word of the cashier. Cashier tells law enforcement a description of the armed robber. Eg. 5'11" 175lbs. 30 year old, Whiskey Mike. Cops a few blocks from scene of the crime see a 30ish year old Whiskey Mike, 5'11ish and about 175 pounds. Cops make a lineup of this fella and throw in four plain clothes cops, 250 pounds each and chubby. Naturally the lady cashier is going to pick the fella who is similar to the description she gave. Cops have no forensic evidence that fast. They may have absolutely nothing on the guy. The problem: law enforcement has lost all objectivity. Cops are no longer following the evidence, cops are attempting to prove this fella guilty now.

Well that's true and it isn't particularly kosher, the typical defense attorney is vastly overworked. They are attorneys and they believe in defending constitutional rights, but you have to acknowledge the huge disparity between prosecutors and public defenders.

I interned at a public defender for awhile as an investigative intern and all the attorneys were swamped. In and out of meetings with current clients, going to the jail to speak with new ones, like three or four attorneys per paralegal. The system needs to vastly increase funding for PDs, but it is never going to happen since that isn't politically sexy. Plus, the prosecutor's investigators are the cops. The public defender's investigators are either in house or contracted out, but regardless, it isn't going to be close to the resources that police have.

Look, if he stole an arm he should be doing some serious time. Let it go.

This ^^, minus all the insults, is partially correct. Public defenders (PDs) have more trials under their belts in a year than many private criminal defense attorneys do in a lifetime. Why? Trials take time and time is $ lost to other clients and retainers. PDs don't carry that burden, although they do carry a substantial case load and some of them are dump trucks that try and settle everything, most are in it to win it for their client and know when to take a case to trial or exploit a case's weaknesses and get a favorable settlement. PDs are without question the best trial lawyers in the courthouse and many of the private defense attorneys were PDs or prosecutors at some stage in their lives. That does not mean that this particular defense attorney is great, not does it mean he/she is awful, but the myth that court-appointed lawyers plead everything out or are a life sentence delayed is flat out false.

Any attorney should be able to cite the Sixth Amendment.

They violated it the minute that defense counsel was not an option.

Have your friend mention it to his representation if he hasn't already

Part of the problem is that my friend matched the very vague very general description of the robber and was found in the area. He also found a discarded couple items and picked them up as he was walking and they happened to belong to the victim. That looks bad but can be explained.

I just think since he had already been charged when the lineup was done he should have been given a lawyer at that time, It seems to be critical that he have one then, If he did not have a lawyer I think the ID at the lineup should be tossed and since any further ID would be tainted by that, that I D should also be out.