All Time USA 100m

You did not get it right.

Well hen let's fix it, go ahead.

For someone who appears to like their history, what would be the reasoning of your relegating Bob Hayes to lane 1?

I assumed it was obvious.

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I do think if not for football he wins again (if sponcered $$$$) in 1968 at around 26, I can a 9.80 UP there in Mexico city.

And....

At 5-11 190 he was as physically imposing as anyone, and if he'd ran on these tracks today and had the training advantages, etc etc....9.75ish.

Whatley wrote:

I do think if not for football he wins again (if sponcered $$$$) in 1968 at around 26, I can a 9.80 UP there in Mexico city.

And....

At 5-11 190 he was as physically imposing as anyone, and if he'd ran on these tracks today and had the training advantages, etc etc....9.75ish.

Yeah, I think you were misinterpreting the impetus of my question. As a matter of fact, with your attitude toward Hayes, you've got me questioning how highly I consider him since you still only put him in lane one.

Here I guess is my "A" heat, based on my own concoction/opinion including various ratios of PRs, championships, medals, mythology, and drug suspicions. I basically think of Hayes as the first Bolt but we don't know it because he was on dirt and stuck in the amateur era.

1. Leroy Burrell

2. Christian Coleman

3. Carl Lewis

4. Bob Hayes

5. Maurice Greene

6. Justin Gatlin

7. Tyson Gay

8. Calvin Smith

I can also certainly see arguments for Hines instead of Smith. Hines went gold, but he's so often diminished for the altitude, for being outshined by Smith and Carlos on certain levels, and for perhaps still being swallowed up in Hayes looming shadow, where Hines was the "first to break 10 FAT", maybe Hayes would have been the first to break 9.80 an render Hines relatively moot.

Whereas Smith has the mythological "last clean WR/AR" intimation due to the '88 bologna. Which may or may not be bogus, of course. I went with him just to be different, I suppose.

How in the hell did I forget Calvin Smith,....EL DUHO!!!!!!!

But.....

Hines was twice ranked number one in the world, while Smith was never number one. Hines was an Olympic Champion while Smith wasn't. Hines the first "legal" sub10.00. So I have to give Hines the nod over Smith in my A race.

Will replace Dennis Mitchell with Calvin Smith in my B.

I am trying to be "cute" putting Hayes in that ....story goes....shoddy, tore up lane one....the lane he actually won from. I do think he breaks 10.00 if beside Jerome/Figuerola.

Getting back to Tommie Smith, he should have anchored both the 4x1/4x4 in 68, He was the best we had at both. Yes I know. I also see him beating Borzov in 72 in the 200m if he could have stayed in the sport. He like Bolt the two cats who get you thinking.....is he really decelerating sure doesn't look like it.

I don’t know how you have Mr. 9.69 in lane 7. Gay gets slept on so much because of how good Bolt was. His 07-13 run was incredible.

I’d also nominate Mike Rodgers as a dark horse. 9.85 PB and has been sub 10 every season forever.

Other than Hayes in one because that was his winning lane I didn't put a whole hell of a lot into lane placement. Wasn't plotted out. At this level it wouldn't mean much anyway. Everyone is beside a great.

Whatley wrote:

Other than Hayes in one because that was his winning lane I didn't put a whole hell of a lot into lane placement. Wasn't plotted out. At this level it wouldn't mean much anyway. Everyone is beside a great.

Where would you put Rodgers in the B race, who does he knock out of it?

also wrote:

I don’t know how you have Mr. 9.69 in lane 7. Gay gets slept on so much because of how good Bolt was. His 07-13 run was incredible.

I’d also nominate Mike Rodgers as a dark horse. 9.85 PB and has been sub 10 every season forever.

I was thinking about Rodgers, too, because he's put in the time. But I abstained from mentioning him for the same reason I put Gay in lane 7; context and a bit of a bias against the present era.

With Gay, my major issue is his downfall after his drug related stuff. If none of that happened, I I would have put him in 5, or even more likely lane 4. But I soured on him, not just for his drug hit but also his lack of success afterward.

You could certainly make the same kind of argument against Gatlin, but the inertia if his issues is different than Gays for me. Fair or not. I was a pretty big advocate for Gay until the drug hit, and the fact is the PED cloud is all over pretty much everyone, but that's why I also have a bias against the present era, and pretty much all eras one Lewis comes up. Hence the allure of someone like Hayes, whose talent was IMMENSE and where he kind of bridges the gap on eras with the availability of wind gauge info and limited FAT results. Hines is also alluring, but like I said, I chose Calvin Smith instead as my own kind of "dark horse".

I look at someone like Rodgers as a kind of poor man's Calvin Smith. But Smith got the WR for a bit and he was kindiof legitimately in the mix for a while until Lewis and Burrell, et al started to pull away in general. Rodgers is really good, but he was never really a threat to the Bolts, Gays, Powells, etc. (Or at least I don't feel like he was).

I totally ignore all the PED stuff, yep, simply don't care. And we do have to look at dominance of era more than just times. Hell....

Roscoe Cook WR9.3

OliverFord WR10.0

Rey Robinson WR9.9

Willie McGee WR9.1

So much for just times.

World rankings, medals wons, championships, and longevity at the top, all biggies.

All Time 100m

lane

1.Carl Lewis USA

2.Asafa Powell Jamaica

3.Tyson Gay USA

4.Usain Bolt Jamaica

5.Justin Gatlin USA

6.Yohan Blake Jamaica

7.Mo Greene USA

8.Ben Johnson Canada

"B"

lane

1.Bob Hayes USA

2.Linford Christie GB

3.Christian Coleman USA

4.Donovan Bailey Canada

5.Frankie Frederick Namibia

6.Ato Boldon Trinidad

7.Francis Obikwelu Nigeria

8???? Who ya got?

Probably my personal all-time "A" heat:

1. Christian Coleman

2. Justin Gatlin

3. Carl Lewis

4. Usain Bolt

5. Bob Hayes

6. Maurice Greene

7. Donovan Bailey

8. Tyson Gay

Really can't argue that I do see where you're at there.

How about the All Time 200m, whtatcha got?

This felt harder than the 100m to me. The eras are harder to mold together, it seemed, but here's what I came up with.

I did what I did for the 100m; seeded the lanes based on a ranking I came up with built mostly on my own subjective reasoning/logic. I get cranky about drugs, personally, so that's often how I move people around, and it can sometimes weirdly give more of a pass to some than to others. Kinda hypocritical/contradictory on my part...but I have to make decisions at some point (i.e. a demoted Blake but I keep Bolt king, etc.).

Also, doing this made me take a serious look at my views on Hayes. If Hayes was "the first Bolt", why isn't he in here? I know very little of Carr. Obviously he was something special, too, so maybe Hayes just didn't care to battling/dealing with Carr for the 200. I dunno. It was a different time then, I guess; even Maurice Greene tried to expand hard into 200s, as does Coleman currently. I feel like if Hayes came up in the current era, we would obviously have a much better idea of what he could have been over 200, too. As it is he's no where to be seen here.

Also, like I said, I seeded the lanes as if they were being placed into a race at a meet, and based it on my own subjective ranking system. But, based on certain talents/skill sets, I wonder if moving people around would make for a better/more interesting race (in theory). Like, for example, maybe it would be more interesting to have Johnson on the inside of Bolt to see if his 400m ability would allow him the opportunity to chase down Bolt *if he had it in him* (though you could argue the other way too -I suppose- and having him in front would allow him opportunity to perhaps control the race in some way). I didn't seed based on any of that thinking, though; just a standard best to worst ranking.

Anyway, here is my "A" 200m heat:

1. Yohan Blake

2. Pietro Mennea

3. Henry Carr

4. Usain Bolt

5. Michael Johnson

6. Tommie Smith

7. Carl Lewis

8. John Carlos

blackloud wrote:

For someone who appears to like their history, what would be the reasoning of your relegating Bob Hayes to lane 1?

You really had to ask?

In Brutal's imaginary final, this time lane 1 isn't on severely chew-up cinders.

I just ignore PED everything since I know for a fact some got away with it while others didn't, so the hell with all that.

Bob Hayes ran a 200 WR twice, but usually lost to Carr, in the longer sprint, he also lost to Homer Jones, Paul Drayton and Richard Stebbins. So.....hmmmm?

I gotta go with....

lane

1.Walter Dix

2.Noah Lyles

3.Henry Carr

4.Usain Bolt

5.Michael Johnson

6.Tommie Smith

7.Carl Lewis

8.Yohan Blake

malmo wrote:

blackloud wrote:

For someone who appears to like their history, what would be the reasoning of your relegating Bob Hayes to lane 1?

You really had to ask?

In Brutal's imaginary final, this time lane 1 isn't on severely chew-up cinders.

What I never got is why was Hayes in lane one?