Other schools have advantages too. Admissions standards, higher COL checks, facilities, training locations. Not saying BYU has EVERYTHING.
For some schools their advantage is they are a good landing spot for internationals
ED EYESTONE THROWS SERIOUS SHADE AT SUDBURY, GAUSON, AND SMITH FOR INTERNATIONAL RECRUITING
College Running
D1
We merged two threads on the same article into 1 and kept the OG title. The 2nd title was “Ed Eyeston (sic), who coached Conner Mantz to 2 NCAA titles at age 24, complains about overage foreigners”
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LDSScripture wrote:
For some schools their advantage is they are a good landing spot for internationals
A float plane that has been at altitude likes to land on still water.
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malmo wrote:
foreigneraskingqs wrote:
might be missing something as a non-American here, but do the missions not only last like a year or two? would that really give a huge advantage?
Of course. I would have been an NCAA legend with two years off like that.
In this fun world of hypotheticals, what's the best back in the day NCAA team finish for a team of seven malmos aged 18,19,20,21,22,23 and 24.
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OED wrote:
honest answers wrote:
Honestly, that's not very convincing, and certainly not "obvious". As another poster asked and I answered, I'd much rather have that window from 20-24 than 18-22.
I guarantee not a single coach whose team is competing tomorrow would agree with you if the condition is that their athlete had to take two complete years off training before starting to compete. Not one. Not even Eyestone.
I guarantee you not a single coach whose team is competing tomorrow outside of Ed would agree with you.
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THOUGHTSLEADER wrote:
QuickToForget wrote:
Everyone seems quick to forget that just a couple years ago, Dan Waters — yes, the same Director at Alabama — proposed an age-limit rule stating that once an athlete turns 25, their eligibility would be exhausted. And what happened? The COACHES voted it down. Let that sink in. The same coaches who are now crying foul as things spiral “out of hand” are the ones who refused to put boundaries in place when given the chance.
I’d also like to point out the selective outrage here. Where was this energy when the women’s 1500 was predominantly Caucasian internationals? Or when the men’s discus saw a similar dynamic? Maybe I’ve been living under a rock, but it’s hard not to notice that the loudest complaints right now are coming almost exclusively from the distance coaching side — and aimed at one particular race of athletes. Rhetorical or not, that question deserves attention
Didn't know the first part, but if true that's very frustrating. 25 is common sense, and that would solve much of this.
Just want to note that there're some (including me) who called out the Kazmierska/Ayyildiz stuff. Most maddening of that was Kazimierska clearly barely cared about NCAAs relative to international success and was perfectly fine getting smoked by Maia Ramsden or Sophie O'Sullivan (international but actually cared about winning) or who-have-you. I feel like the NCAA works because winning it is a big deal and you get to see athletes rise and fall. Older athletes or ones who consider it a warmup for international competition take away from why it's great. I'm OK with NIL, and foreign athletes, but quasi-pros or ones who do NCAA transactionally just makes it less fun.
Anyone remember a very recent (<a couple weeks) instagram post which a current member of the Oregon women’s team commented on? If the post wasn’t originally about foreign/overage/transfer students, people replying to her took it there because of how the UO team is constructed
Sorry for the sparse details, I can’t remember many specifics, hoping someone else here might’ve seen it
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i ran in the 90s wrote:
OED wrote:
Experience my eye.
Take the stone out of your eye, then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye.
Which raises the question:
There was a murderer named Richard Speck.
There is a runner/coach named Ed Eyestone.
Why have I never heard of someone with the last name of Eyespeck?
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OED wrote:
honest answers wrote:
I don't value your guarantee when my experience and conversations prove otherwise.
Experience my eye.
How convincing.
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zxcvzxcv wrote:
Let's say Mormons don't run at all on missions. You would still rather have four years of eligibility from 20 to 24 than 18-22, right?
Tell that to Cole Hocker, what would he say? Tell that to Mantz, what would he say?
From a purely athletic development standpoint for someone who has pro talent delaying entry into the NCAA for two years is detrimental not helpful. Detrimental to ones pro career and crucial years for attaining peak fitness in the sport.
You think if Cole Hocker dinked around for a couple of years before entering the NCAA it would have been beneficial for him and his ascension in the sport, give me a break.
If you are super talented, and many BYU guys are that go on missions are. Clinger, Mantz, Troutner, Simmons, Vause. You really think the onus behind the decision is that they would prefer to delay their development to participate in the NCAA a couple years older?
That's not it, it's clearly false, if these guys have pro aspirations, and many do. They are taking a risk and making a sacrifice by putting that on hold.It's an upside down world where such a decision is jeered, belittled, and misconstrued to imply they are taking advantage of the NCAA. Even more so in the current environment.
Human folly, in all its chaos and contradiction, is oddly beautiful to behold.106 -
Don't hate the player, hate the game. The NCAA is a fundamentally broken system. Having the development pipeline tied so closely with education is a disservice to both talent development and education.
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Kip Kangogo was there for a year in 2002ish?
Mary Kamau finished her final two years at BYU 2004-06.
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NCAA? More like NC-double- wrote:
Don't hate the player, hate the game. The NCAA is a fundamentally broken system. Having the development pipeline tied so closely with education is a disservice to both talent development and education.
Cool.
I will just say that I hate the WNBA next time someone accuses me of misogyny.
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Honest question- are mormons required to go on mission right after high school? Can’t they delay abd do that after college? Too lazy to ask chatgpt
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You cannot make an age exception based on whether the runner was on a religious mission versus training professionally in Kenya for those gap years.
Implement a hard stop - max age 20 for freshman and 23 for final year of eligibility. The BYU runners can do their mission after they finish their NCAA career. And the Kenyan 28 year old professionals can race somewhere else.
It's not difficult to implement objective criteria. No different than using weight classes in NCAA wrestling to prevent competitive advantage.
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2 things can be true here:
1. Eyestone is making some valid points about structural issues with the NCAA. Teams full of 20something Kenyans with years of pro running experience are making a mockery of the sport.
2. Eyestone has no business talking about "overage" athletes. He's not doing anything wrong, but nobody from BYU can be the one to speak on that particular issue. Have a little self-awareness, man.
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If you think the NCAA is bad now just wait until next year. Imagine what the feeding frenzy will be like after the U20 race at the World XC Champ. The NCAa coaches just have to travel to Fla. Teams that never had a foreign athlete before will be there with bags of money.
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BYU has had what I have always called "Legalized Cheating". BYU has always been able to use 7 years to compete 4 seasons. They have Legally Cheated for Decades and Decades!!!
Now Ed is complaining that somebody else can "legally cheat" like he and BYU have done for Decades???? Ed you are a Joke!
And all you BYU cheaters can kiss my A**! Bottom line, If BYU didn't have the mission system they would Suck!! Lmao!!
Ed should shame himself, if he's trying to shame other coaches!!
Tell me what the rules are, and I'll play by them. That is exactly what every coach in the NCAA is doing right now, and Ed is being a little Biotch about it.The so-called "legalized cheating" you berate BYU for is available to all programs. If this strategy is such an advantage, why don't more programs have their rosters take two years off to go work for the Peace Corps?
By contrast, we see a number of programs that have moved toward a strategy of using agencies to facilitate recruitment of international talent, suggesting that there is a real competitive advantage with this strategy.
The two phenomena are not remotely comparable.
This post was edited 2 minutes after it was posted.123 -
Hal1983 wrote:
2 things can be true here:
1. Eyestone is making some valid points about structural issues with the NCAA. Teams full of 20something Kenyans with years of pro running experience are making a mockery of the sport.
2. Eyestone has no business talking about "overage" athletes. He's not doing anything wrong, but nobody from BYU can be the one to speak on that particular issue. Have a little self-awareness, man.
Agreed on both.
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Ddddddddddddd wrote:
FYI - suits have already been filed challenging the 4yr competition cap. wouldn’t be surprised if there is no limit in the near future.
This is exactly the end result. Given the current situation with restraint of trade as it relates to college athletics the NCAA has no ground to say you have a limit on your college eligibility.
Amazing how this isn't a bigger thing... it's happening unless congress gets involved.
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