Wondering when he was going to throw one down. Nice job! Agree on the commentary
Track fans were concerned when he hadn't really approached his 3:34 time in high school but this puts him very close (like 1 second) to all-time top 10 for Americans. Just a great race.
If you look at world athletics it shows his top 10 races (based on time and potentially placing well if it's a big race) and last year he had 6 races that were better than his 3rd best race from 2021. People were just talking crap that he didn't run a PR, but last year his typical race was better than his typical race in 2021. And now this year he has had his best two races of his life, the 7:39 indoor 3k and now a 3:32 1500. Out of his 10 best races of his life, 6 have been in the past 12 months including his best two. And I imagine he'll add even more to his top 10 this year.
No, he wasn’t doing 100 miles per week his first year of running. He went from 5:38 as a freshman to 4:07 as a sophomore on what was then around 50-70 miles per week depending on the season at East (xc vs track). Is that good enough “baseline at a young age” for your qualification? Ryun ran under 4 minutes in crap spikes beating the Olympic champion and world record holder after only TWO years of running. He didn’t start consistent 100 mpw until the summer after his junior year when he moved in with Coach Timmons and his wife on the farm. You have to understand that the training was based on swimming workouts- this is all his coach knew- massive volumes of 2’s and 4’s with short recovery. I would encourage you to read “The Jim Ryun Story” for some baseline education on the matter.
I’m not sure where you get “much of the world not participating in the sport”, but that’s clearly a new one. It’s the oldest sport out there and was extremely popular in the 60’s. The Kenyans and Ethiopians were deadly even in those days- Wolde, Bikila, Temu, Keino, etc There were the Czechs (odlozil), the Aussies (Clarke), and the Kiwis (Snell, Davies). There were outliers then as there are today- from Belgium…from Tunisia…point being, the whole world was represented.
Besides, how would that false narrative refute a young man’s talent? Look, I’m not trying to be a @$hole here, but I can’t stand false narratives based on lack of knowledge on a subject. You’re young- I get it. You’re enamored with the performance of Kessler- I also get that. What Kessler has done is incredible; but what Ryun did was other worldly. Imagine if Kessler kicked down Cheruiyot on Saturday, but was a high schooler? That is what I think you’re not grasping.
This is silly talk. By much of the world not running, I don’t mean they weren’t introduced to the sport, I mean African participation was not what it is now.
You have to let go of the “imagine if a high schooler set the world record” rhetoric. As time moves on, we get closer to maximum human limits in the sport.
If Jim Ryun were in high school today, he wouldn’t be a 3:42 mile WR guy in high school which seems to be your barometer.
I read the Jim Ryun story over 20 years ago an downloaded his training program.
A better argument for Jim’s talent might be that he was overtrained.
You seem to equate talent to world competitiveness. I don’t.
Back to Hobbs, what so fascinating about him is his 3:34 was from a light training schedule.
You certainly can’t compare times because of the dramatic changes in both tracks and footwear, so you’re left with “competitiveness”. African participation was every bit what it is today.
On the big stage: Ryun was a hs senior with food poisoning in Tokyo…unlucky to have 68 at altitude with jipcho sacrificing his own race to pace Keino (he later apologized)…and tripped in the 1972 Games. One can only control what they can control.
And why would we let go of the emphasized tenets?- ie a hs’er beating the Olympic champion? It happened. It emphasizes the point.
As I said, neither of us will agree on the matter, and argument only strengthens our own personal resolve on the subject at hand.
If you look at world athletics it shows his top 10 races (based on time and potentially placing well if it's a big race) and last year he had 6 races that were better than his 3rd best race from 2021. People were just talking crap that he didn't run a PR, but last year his typical race was better than his typical race in 2021. And now this year he has had his best two races of his life, the 7:39 indoor 3k and now a 3:32 1500. Out of his 10 best races of his life, 6 have been in the past 12 months including his best two. And I imagine he'll add even more to his top 10 this year.
Last year was up and down. There were some bright spots (800 PB, competitive 1,000). This year minus the Boston indoor mile has been really good. Now that he’s run a fast time, the next step is to compete hard at USAs and be a factor in the final. I think he’s going to be OK in the circuit races.
This is silly talk. By much of the world not running, I don’t mean they weren’t introduced to the sport, I mean African participation was not what it is now.
You have to let go of the “imagine if a high schooler set the world record” rhetoric. As time moves on, we get closer to maximum human limits in the sport.
If Jim Ryun were in high school today, he wouldn’t be a 3:42 mile WR guy in high school which seems to be your barometer.
I read the Jim Ryun story over 20 years ago an downloaded his training program.
A better argument for Jim’s talent might be that he was overtrained.
You seem to equate talent to world competitiveness. I don’t.
Back to Hobbs, what so fascinating about him is his 3:34 was from a light training schedule.
You certainly can’t compare times because of the dramatic changes in both tracks and footwear, so you’re left with “competitiveness”. African participation was every bit what it is today.
On the big stage: Ryun was a hs senior with food poisoning in Tokyo…unlucky to have 68 at altitude with jipcho sacrificing his own race to pace Keino (he later apologized)…and tripped in the 1972 Games. One can only control what they can control.
And why would we let go of the emphasized tenets?- ie a hs’er beating the Olympic champion? It happened. It emphasizes the point.
As I said, neither of us will agree on the matter, and argument only strengthens our own personal resolve on the subject at hand.
In terms of best young talent, Ryun beats Kessler EASILY. Kessler hasn't even come close to making a world team.
Kessler's training schedule IS NOT "light" at all. He is in a pro training group and he's done some extremely challenging workouts. Not all 1500m runners need to run 120 miles per week.
Your definition wouldn't even consider Jakob as one of the top young talents because you'd claim he trained too hard. Your definition would make Drew Hunter the top young talent in the world because his training is a joke.
Yeah it irritates me when people overexaggerate past performances because of lesser quality spikes and tracks, and say that the best athletes all happened to run in the 60's and 70's. I think the guys in the pre-rubber track era would be 1-3 seconds faster/mile with today's technologies, and don't think that Jim Ryun was a 3:42 guy, or that Peter Snell was a 1:39 guy.
Put Ryun in today’s shoes on today’s tracks with even pacing, and he’s probably a 3:47 guy. Real close to Webb’s 3:46.9. I think sub-3:30 in the 1500. That’s where I would put him. A hair under 3:30 but not a 3:27 dude.
Good points. Yes, Ryun was great but his greatness and record are often exaggerated here. And yes, he would be faster in modern shoes and tracks. So would everyone else back then. Coe, Cram, etc. Ryun comparisons to Kessler are pretty insignificant anyway. Matters not.
Kessler is doing just fine. You only get credit for what you run, and he's done plenty at 20yrs 2mos. He's no Jakob, but who is? The kid is a great young runner with very nice range. There isn't an American out there that has shown more ability at his age.
BTW, Lagat's 3:29.40 was run as an American. It is the AR. If you want to exclude those born outside the US, its Centro at 3:30.40
This is silly talk. By much of the world not running, I don’t mean they weren’t introduced to the sport, I mean African participation was not what it is now.
You have to let go of the “imagine if a high schooler set the world record” rhetoric. As time moves on, we get closer to maximum human limits in the sport.
If Jim Ryun were in high school today, he wouldn’t be a 3:42 mile WR guy in high school which seems to be your barometer.
I read the Jim Ryun story over 20 years ago an downloaded his training program.
A better argument for Jim’s talent might be that he was overtrained.
You seem to equate talent to world competitiveness. I don’t.
Back to Hobbs, what so fascinating about him is his 3:34 was from a light training schedule.
You certainly can’t compare times because of the dramatic changes in both tracks and footwear, so you’re left with “competitiveness”. African participation was every bit what it is today.
On the big stage: Ryun was a hs senior with food poisoning in Tokyo…unlucky to have 68 at altitude with jipcho sacrificing his own race to pace Keino (he later apologized)…and tripped in the 1972 Games. One can only control what they can control.
And why would we let go of the emphasized tenets?- ie a hs’er beating the Olympic champion? It happened. It emphasizes the point.
As I said, neither of us will agree on the matter, and argument only strengthens our own personal resolve on the subject at hand.
So it is settled. Unless a high schooler runs a 3:25 1500m, he shouldn’t be mentioned in the same breath as Jim.
Hypothetically & hyperbolically, if the WR in the 1500m is 3:23.0 in 2040, that crop of high schoolers will need to run 3:22.
You certainly can’t compare times because of the dramatic changes in both tracks and footwear, so you’re left with “competitiveness”. African participation was every bit what it is today.
On the big stage: Ryun was a hs senior with food poisoning in Tokyo…unlucky to have 68 at altitude with jipcho sacrificing his own race to pace Keino (he later apologized)…and tripped in the 1972 Games. One can only control what they can control.
And why would we let go of the emphasized tenets?- ie a hs’er beating the Olympic champion? It happened. It emphasizes the point.
As I said, neither of us will agree on the matter, and argument only strengthens our own personal resolve on the subject at hand.
So it is settled. Unless a high schooler runs a 3:25 1500m, he shouldn’t be mentioned in the same breath as Jim.
Hypothetically & hyperbolically, if the WR in the 1500m is 3:23.0 in 2040, that crop of high schoolers will need to run 3:22.
Missed the point completely- again, this is why “competitiveness” is used. ie- a hs’er making an Olympic team as a junior and beating the Olympic champion as a senior.
You certainly can’t compare times because of the dramatic changes in both tracks and footwear, so you’re left with “competitiveness”. African participation was every bit what it is today.
On the big stage: Ryun was a hs senior with food poisoning in Tokyo…unlucky to have 68 at altitude with jipcho sacrificing his own race to pace Keino (he later apologized)…and tripped in the 1972 Games. One can only control what they can control.
And why would we let go of the emphasized tenets?- ie a hs’er beating the Olympic champion? It happened. It emphasizes the point.
As I said, neither of us will agree on the matter, and argument only strengthens our own personal resolve on the subject at hand.
In terms of best young talent, Ryun beats Kessler EASILY. Kessler hasn't even come close to making a world team.
Kessler's training schedule IS NOT "light" at all. He is in a pro training group and he's done some extremely challenging workouts. Not all 1500m runners need to run 120 miles per week.
Your definition wouldn't even consider Jakob as one of the top young talents because you'd claim he trained too hard. Your definition would make Drew Hunter the top young talent in the world because his training is a joke.
None of what you said makes sense. I never said Ryun wasn’t immensely talented. And I certainly believe Jakob is talented.
I simply believe it took Hobbs less effort to reach his times than it did Ryun. It’s a really simply concept.
So it is settled. Unless a high schooler runs a 3:25 1500m, he shouldn’t be mentioned in the same breath as Jim.
Hypothetically & hyperbolically, if the WR in the 1500m is 3:23.0 in 2040, that crop of high schoolers will need to run 3:22.
Missed the point completely- again, this is why “competitiveness” is used. ie- a hs’er making an Olympic team as a junior and beating the Olympic champion as a senior.
Listen. I think you’re trying to win an argument and losing sight of reasoning.
The sport of track and field is a maturing sport. As the world population grows, the amount of money available increases, and professional opportunities increase it becomes harder for young kids to compete.
Hypothetical situation —
if the world record was 5 min. It would possible for middle schoolers to compete. Era not withstanding.
1976 had no Africans in top 1500 spits or 5k either
Need to check your data
There was a boycott? No Americans in 1980, we really stunk as a country then. Being sarcastic because that would've been one of our best all-around distance squads.
Put Ryun in today’s shoes on today’s tracks with even pacing, and he’s probably a 3:47 guy. Real close to Webb’s 3:46.9. I think sub-3:30 in the 1500. That’s where I would put him. A hair under 3:30 but not a 3:27 dude.
Good points. Yes, Ryun was great but his greatness and record are often exaggerated here. And yes, he would be faster in modern shoes and tracks. So would everyone else back then. Coe, Cram, etc. Ryun comparisons to Kessler are pretty insignificant anyway. Matters not.
Kessler is doing just fine. You only get credit for what you run, and he's done plenty at 20yrs 2mos. He's no Jakob, but who is? The kid is a great young runner with very nice range. There isn't an American out there that has shown more ability at his age.
BTW, Lagat's 3:29.40 was run as an American. It is the AR. If you want to exclude those born outside the US, its Centro at 3:30.40
I agree with everything you wrote, simply saying Ryun was definitely a sub-3:30 guy in the modern era, which is quite a feat since no non-American born athlete has achieved it yet outdoors. Kind of hard to believe.
I see no reason to exclude non-American born athletes, and, besides, Nuguse is going to have something to say about this. But, Kessler is younger still, and I suppose for those who really want another American born, white kid from the Midwest, Kessler has been handed the torch. I am excited for him. He is a generational talent and I do think he will ultimately break 3:30, sooner rather than later.
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