Hobbs Kessler TAKES DOWN Teare and all the Americans!! 3:32.61

kartelite wrote:

teare it up wrote:

Teare was more impressive today and anyone who disagrees is a fool. Kessler had a faster PR coming in - 3:34.36 to 3:34.81 so Teare is closing the gap.

Teare ran a 2.07 second PR from last year, Kessler's was less at 1.75 second PR from 2 years ago. Teare is improving at a faster rate despite being older.

More importantly, Teare is a 5k runner. He will have one of the best 1500m PB's in any field he races against.

A 3:32 runner is certainly not one of the better 1500m runners in any global 5k field. Ingebrigtsen (3:28), Katir (3:28), and Kejelcha (3:47i) are significantly faster at 1500m and 15-20 seconds faster over 5k, and pretty much any of the other 5k contenders could drop a 3:30-32 but they just don’t race it. Krop has run 7:30, Fisher 7:28, Kimeli 7:31, and Barega 7:27 so they’re not going to be blown away by Teare and could definitely run 3:32 in a 1500m. Not to mention having 5k PRs in a different league from Teare.

kartelite wrote:

teare it up wrote:

Teare was more impressive today and anyone who disagrees is a fool. Kessler had a faster PR coming in - 3:34.36 to 3:34.81 so Teare is closing the gap.

Teare ran a 2.07 second PR from last year, Kessler's was less at 1.75 second PR from 2 years ago. Teare is improving at a faster rate despite being older.

More importantly, Teare is a 5k runner. He will have one of the best 1500m PB's in any field he races against.

A 3:32 runner is certainly not one of the better 1500m runners in any global 5k field. Ingebrigtsen (3:28), Katir (3:28), and Kejelcha (3:47i) are significantly faster at 1500m and 15-20 seconds faster over 5k, and pretty much any of the other 5k contenders could drop a 3:30-32 but they just don’t race it. Krop has run 7:30, Fisher 7:28, Kimeli 7:31, and Barega 7:27 so they’re not going to be blown away by Teare and could definitely run 3:32 in a 1500m. Not to mention having 5k PRs in a different league from Teare.

Let it Rupp wrote:

kartelite wrote:

A 3:32 runner is certainly not one of the better 1500m runners in any global 5k field. Ingebrigtsen (3:28), Katir (3:28), and Kejelcha (3:47i) are significantly faster at 1500m and 15-20 seconds faster over 5k, and pretty much any of the other 5k contenders could drop a 3:30-32 but they just don’t race it. Krop has run 7:30, Fisher 7:28, Kimeli 7:31, and Barega 7:27 so they’re not going to be blown away by Teare and could definitely run 3:32 in a 1500m. Not to mention having 5k PRs in a different league from Teare.

Eh, out of the entire 5000 final last year, Ingebrigtson and Kejelcha were the only ones with elite 1500/mile PB's. Teare will have plenty of speed with a 3:32 in a field of mostly 3:34-36 guys. I don't think most of the 5k contenders are able to go 3:30-32, and I would bet that if they could, they would.

I've said it before, I don't think Teare has the wheels to hang with the top 1500 runners and needs to focus on the 5k. In the few mile/15's he's been in against the best in the world, he gets dusted.

kartelite wrote:

teare it up wrote:

Teare was more impressive today and anyone who disagrees is a fool. Kessler had a faster PR coming in - 3:34.36 to 3:34.81 so Teare is closing the gap.

Teare ran a 2.07 second PR from last year, Kessler's was less at 1.75 second PR from 2 years ago. Teare is improving at a faster rate despite being older.

More importantly, Teare is a 5k runner. He will have one of the best 1500m PB's in any field he races against.

A 3:32 runner is certainly not one of the better 1500m runners in any global 5k field. Ingebrigtsen (3:28), Katir (3:28), and Kejelcha (3:47i) are significantly faster at 1500m and 15-20 seconds faster over 5k, and pretty much any of the other 5k contenders could drop a 3:30-32 but they just don’t race it. Krop has run 7:30, Fisher 7:28, Kimeli 7:31, and Barega 7:27 so they’re not going to be blown away by Teare and could definitely run 3:32 in a 1500m. Not to mention having 5k PRs in a different league from Teare.

Wise Old Man wrote:

Let it Rupp wrote:

Eh, out of the entire 5000 final last year, Ingebrigtson and Kejelcha were the only ones with elite 1500/mile PB's. Teare will have plenty of speed with a 3:32 in a field of mostly 3:34-36 guys. I don't think most of the 5k contenders are able to go 3:30-32, and I would bet that if they could, they would.

I've said it before, I don't think Teare has the wheels to hang with the top 1500 runners and needs to focus on the 5k. In the few mile/15's he's been in against the best in the world, he gets dusted.

The problem for Teare right now is that it’s easier for him to make the 1500 team. I don’t think he’s ready to beat Fisher or Woody, and he still has to deal with Nur and Chelimo and maybe Klecker. That’s a much deeper and stronger line up than what he faces in the 1500 this year. You can’t contend for a global medal if you fail to qualify for the meet. He can reassess and see about the run up to Paris.

A couple meh wrote:

Some perspective wrote:

put this into perspective with Ryun modernized as Leo:

After only 2 years of running, he broke the 4 minute mile for the first time in high school as a junior. This was on cinders in crap spikes.

I don’t think you realize Ryun’s talent. Imagine if Leo Young beat Ingebrigtsen (Olympic champion) this summer over a mile, then made the Olympic team. What if his freshman year, Leo won the ncaa champs with a 23.9 last 200 and the USA champs with a 53.9 last 400. Then, what if Leo broke the AR in the mile his freshman year. Then the next year as a soph at Stanford ran 3:43 and 1:41 to break the wr in the mile and the 800. It goes on for more wr’s for the mile and 2 mile.
A different era, but that’s what Ryun did. That far surpasses anything our last 4 decades of young milers could do. At Bannister’s dinner in London in 1994, all the current living previous wr holders were in attendance (excepting Hägg). The vote amongst them as to who the greatest miler ever? Ryun.

Ryun’s “world class” in high school was also aided by much of the world not participating in the sport.

In any case, Ryun is clearly immensely talented. But my definition of talent is a function of a person’s baseline at a young age.

How much training has someone done to reach a given set of times? Ryun was running 100 miles first year of running (I believe).

Hobbs ran 45 miles per week for his senior only and ran 3:34 after less than 3 years of running and only 1 year of serious running. I don’t know if there has been anyone else in the history so lightly trained to run ~ 3:51 mile, let alone as a high school student.

Some perspective wrote:

A couple meh wrote:

Ryun’s “world class” in high school was also aided by much of the world not participating in the sport.

In any case, Ryun is clearly immensely talented. But my definition of talent is a function of a person’s baseline at a young age.

How much training has someone done to reach a given set of times? Ryun was running 100 miles first year of running (I believe).

Hobbs ran 45 miles per week for his senior only and ran 3:34 after less than 3 years of running and only 1 year of serious running. I don’t know if there has been anyone else in the history so lightly trained to run ~ 3:51 mile, let alone as a high school student.

No, he wasn’t doing 100 miles per week his first year of running. He went from 5:38 as a freshman to 4:07 as a sophomore on what was then around 50-70 miles per week depending on the season at East (xc vs track). Is that good enough “baseline at a young age” for your qualification? Ryun ran under 4 minutes in crap spikes beating the Olympic champion and world record holder after only TWO years of running. He didn’t start consistent 100 mpw until the summer after his junior year when he moved in with Coach Timmons and his wife on the farm. You have to understand that the training was based on swimming workouts- this is all his coach knew- massive volumes of 2’s and 4’s with short recovery. I would encourage you to read “The Jim Ryun Story” for some baseline education on the matter.

I’m not sure where you get “much of the world not participating in the sport”, but that’s clearly a new one. It’s the oldest sport out there and was extremely popular in the 60’s. The Kenyans and Ethiopians were deadly even in those days- Wolde, Bikila, Temu, Keino, etc There were the Czechs (odlozil), the Aussies (Clarke), and the Kiwis (Snell, Davies). There were outliers then as there are today- from Belgium…from Tunisia…point being, the whole world was represented.

Besides, how would that false narrative refute a young man’s talent? Look, I’m not trying to be a @$hole here, but I can’t stand false narratives based on lack of knowledge on a subject. You’re young- I get it. You’re enamored with the performance of Kessler- I also get that. What Kessler has done is incredible; but what Ryun did was other worldly. Imagine if Kessler kicked down Cheruiyot on Saturday, but was a high schooler? That is what I think you’re not grasping.

Some perspective wrote:

A couple meh wrote:

Ryun’s “world class” in high school was also aided by much of the world not participating in the sport.

In any case, Ryun is clearly immensely talented. But my definition of talent is a function of a person’s baseline at a young age.

How much training has someone done to reach a given set of times? Ryun was running 100 miles first year of running (I believe).

Hobbs ran 45 miles per week for his senior only and ran 3:34 after less than 3 years of running and only 1 year of serious running. I don’t know if there has been anyone else in the history so lightly trained to run ~ 3:51 mile, let alone as a high school student.

No, he wasn’t doing 100 miles per week his first year of running. He went from 5:38 as a freshman to 4:07 as a sophomore on what was then around 50-70 miles per week depending on the season at East (xc vs track). Is that good enough “baseline at a young age” for your qualification? Ryun ran under 4 minutes in crap spikes beating the Olympic champion and world record holder after only TWO years of running. He didn’t start consistent 100 mpw until the summer after his junior year when he moved in with Coach Timmons and his wife on the farm. You have to understand that the training was based on swimming workouts- this is all his coach knew- massive volumes of 2’s and 4’s with short recovery. I would encourage you to read “The Jim Ryun Story” for some baseline education on the matter.

I’m not sure where you get “much of the world not participating in the sport”, but that’s clearly a new one. It’s the oldest sport out there and was extremely popular in the 60’s. The Kenyans and Ethiopians were deadly even in those days- Wolde, Bikila, Temu, Keino, etc There were the Czechs (odlozil), the Aussies (Clarke), and the Kiwis (Snell, Davies). There were outliers then as there are today- from Belgium…from Tunisia…point being, the whole world was represented.

Besides, how would that false narrative refute a young man’s talent? Look, I’m not trying to be a @$hole here, but I can’t stand false narratives based on lack of knowledge on a subject. You’re young- I get it. You’re enamored with the performance of Kessler- I also get that. What Kessler has done is incredible; but what Ryun did was other worldly. Imagine if Kessler kicked down Cheruiyot on Saturday, but was a high schooler? That is what I think you’re not grasping.

Sub-9 guy wrote:

Some perspective wrote:

No, he wasn’t doing 100 miles per week his first year of running. He went from 5:38 as a freshman to 4:07 as a sophomore on what was then around 50-70 miles per week depending on the season at East (xc vs track). Is that good enough “baseline at a young age” for your qualification? Ryun ran under 4 minutes in crap spikes beating the Olympic champion and world record holder after only TWO years of running. He didn’t start consistent 100 mpw until the summer after his junior year when he moved in with Coach Timmons and his wife on the farm. You have to understand that the training was based on swimming workouts- this is all his coach knew- massive volumes of 2’s and 4’s with short recovery. I would encourage you to read “The Jim Ryun Story” for some baseline education on the matter.

I’m not sure where you get “much of the world not participating in the sport”, but that’s clearly a new one. It’s the oldest sport out there and was extremely popular in the 60’s. The Kenyans and Ethiopians were deadly even in those days- Wolde, Bikila, Temu, Keino, etc There were the Czechs (odlozil), the Aussies (Clarke), and the Kiwis (Snell, Davies). There were outliers then as there are today- from Belgium…from Tunisia…point being, the whole world was represented.

Besides, how would that false narrative refute a young man’s talent? Look, I’m not trying to be a @$hole here, but I can’t stand false narratives based on lack of knowledge on a subject. You’re young- I get it. You’re enamored with the performance of Kessler- I also get that. What Kessler has done is incredible; but what Ryun did was other worldly. Imagine if Kessler kicked down Cheruiyot on Saturday, but was a high schooler? That is what I think you’re not grasping.

I generally agree with you. I think Ryun is the greatest miler the US has ever had, better than Webb, because Ryun performed well when it mattered. And ran on inferior tracks with inferior equipment.

However, perhaps his greatest talent was his durability. I think the point the other poster is making is “imagine if Kessler could run and sustain 100 mpw (I believe I read Ryun was doing 110 actually). He would be perhaps the greatest ever.” And there is a modicum of truth here. However, Kessler has to show that he can both handle “peak volume” and run fast. 3:32 is fast, but nothing he has done even approaches Ryun yet. Not even close, especially considering the super shoes.

I would like to see a US runner break 3:30 once and for all and factor in the faster world championship events. Perhaps Kessler is that guy.

Some perspective wrote:

Sub-9 guy wrote:

I generally agree with you. I think Ryun is the greatest miler the US has ever had, better than Webb, because Ryun performed well when it mattered. And ran on inferior tracks with inferior equipment.

However, perhaps his greatest talent was his durability. I think the point the other poster is making is “imagine if Kessler could run and sustain 100 mpw (I believe I read Ryun was doing 110 actually). He would be perhaps the greatest ever.” And there is a modicum of truth here. However, Kessler has to show that he can both handle “peak volume” and run fast. 3:32 is fast, but nothing he has done even approaches Ryun yet. Not even close, especially considering the super shoes.

I would like to see a US runner break 3:30 once and for all and factor in the faster world championship events. Perhaps Kessler is that guy.

I sincerely hope. Fingers and toes are crossed. I think we’ll see your scenario as Kessler becomes more mature and consistent in his racing. His 2:16 last summer was a huge step to a new way of thinking, in my opinion. This stretch run in LA along those same lines. Remember, we also have Nuguse, who I think will finally be the one to crack Lagat’s AR.