She ran a wonderful race. Our expectations were way overblown by her recent races. LRC helped way over-hype her. She finished 2nd for gods sake.
Very similar sentiments expressed by a swath of posters here over another white female athlete v a biracial female athlete in the long sprint. I suspect you are all the same.
For whatever reason I thought she would crush everyone or at least put up a fight until the very end.
So I'm struggling with 1) she isn't as good as I made her out to be 2) had an off day 3) Doris Lemngole is just better.
or is this too simplistic. Maybe she's not used to running under pressure with others near her?
....
Jane ran a phenomenal race and was fatigued from her last race. Doris Lemngole is just that good, Doris could have approached sub 18:10 if needed today. Lemngole is one of the best in the world and Jane will need another year to close the gap. Jane will improve drastically in the next 2 years whereas Lemngole is nearing her limits/potential at NCAA X. By 2027 Jane will be Doris' equal or better at 5000m and X Country❗
It is so bizarrely fascinating that some of you think one athlete will not get any better yet the other will have such a tremendous improvement and surpass her.
Hmmmm, now where have I seen that strange analysis before...
Jane ran a phenomenal race and was fatigued from her last race. Doris Lemngole is just that good, Doris could have approached sub 18:10 if needed today. Lemngole is one of the best in the world and Jane will need another year to close the gap. Jane will improve drastically in the next 2 years whereas Lemngole is nearing her limits/potential at NCAA X. By 2027 Jane will be Doris' equal or better at 5000m and X Country❗
No one has any idea how much Jane will improve. Did Katelyn Tuhoy improve drastically? Improvement can never be assumed even with young phenoms.
Watching Hedengren run I am of the view she has certain limitations. She uses a lot of energy-expensive upper body movement when she runs - she looked to be working very hard next to the smaller Lemngole - almost labouring, and not gliding as the very best distance runners seem to do. She also appears to have only one cadence when she runs, which is determined by her extremely long legs. She probably expends quite a lot of energy, that is only enabled, I am guessing, by her exceptional aerobic capacity. She is undoubtedly a top athlete at collegiate level but none of the runners that I saw in that race - other than Lemngole - showed the form of a potential international athlete. I would be very surprised if Hedengren transitions to track at a world class level. She doesn't appear built for it or to run like the very best do.
Jane is definitely at a disadvantage in cross country (hills, mud etc) in terms of body size + the pro/world elite level strength that the much older Lemngole has. It was especially obvious in the last km from 5-6km. I was thinking for those reasons she’d be much more comparable and is more likely to be competitive with Lemngole on the track (especially in shorter 3-5k distances)…no hills, no mud and it’s shorter. Not sure what Lemngole’s mile is, but Jane’s got excellent speed - 4.23 I think? I guess we’ll see soon at BU Indoor, assuming they line up together? Very much looking forward to it!
Diligeet is a great coach who is playing the long game. She was not just trying to help Jane get the win. She has a team in the title hunt. If she sends Jane way out the front and Jane lows up and goes out the back door. BYU has no chance to win the title.
You give Dilgeet and Jane another 6 months and she will be unbeatable.
Diligeet is a great coach who is playing the long game. She was not just trying to help Jane get the win. She has a team in the title hunt. If she sends Jane way out the front and Jane lows up and goes out the back door. BYU has no chance to win the title.
You give Dilgeet and Jane another 6 months and she will be unbeatable.
No, that’s not what happened. Jane took the lead like she always does, but she couldn’t gap Lemngole, and eventually went to plan B which was to hang on as long as possible. Dilgeet had nothing to do with it. How could she have helped Jane get the win and what long game is she trying to win?
Jane did an amazing job, she is a 1 in a million athlete, and so good at such a young age. Katelyn Tuohy was 25th as a freshman, and Parker Valby was 27th as a sophomore. Jane took 2nd as a freshmen to a world class East African runner and she pushed that runner to a course record. Jane was incredible and as a 19 year old she kept pushing, and she went out hella fast, sub 5 min opening mile. She is already probably the best American distance runner. A 4:23 miler as a high schooler, she will demolish that time this year, and I predict she will be in the top 5 in times as a American in every distance from the mile to the 10k. Her track season will definitely be something to behold.
Yet another typical delusional poster trying to grossly overhype someone who simply couldn't live up to said hype, Doris, a world class runner and defending NCAA XC champion, didn't need some overhyped teenager to push her to anything. K
Keep lying to yourself that the 2nd place finisher made a difference, it'll be more fun when she turns pro and gets the floor mopped with her against much better and superior competition.
she wasn't relaxed, she looked like she was pressing from the early stages. I think it's just nerves / expectations / not used to running with people around her. She's only a freshman and it took a world class runner to beat her. She'll learn from this and she'll be just fine.
she wasn't relaxed, she looked like she was pressing from the early stages. I think it's just nerves / expectations / not used to running with people around her. She's only a freshman and it took a world class runner to beat her. She'll learn from this and she'll be just fine.
You can’t measure pressing or not feeling relaxed just by looking at her. Only Jane would know. She was leading so people were behind her and not around her.
All she learned from this race is that she wasn’t strong enough to gap Lemngole. She’ll run the exact same strategy next and maybe she’ll have improved enough to win.
In 1974, Craig Virgin tried to run with Nick Rose, got burned and finished 12th. The next year, Virgin beat Rose by 15 seconds.
I think people just didn’t fully register how good Doris’s steeple results actually were. Doris’s steeple résumé in perspective:
- 8:58 NCAA win, time-trial, completely solo, with a 25m lead after one lap - 11th-fastest time ever run (in the world not just NCAA) - World Athletics tables equate it to roughly a 14:17 5k - 5th at Worlds with a fall on the final water jump (likely 3rd or 4th without it) - Hurdling form is only okay. Her dominance comes from fitness, not technique
And her 14:52 5k PB is from indoors, so it underrates her true level. Note that Jane ran 15:13 indoors then 14:57 outdoors, last season.
My takeaway: for Jane to beat Doris, she would’ve needed to be in ~14:20 shape. I thought they were equal favourites, but in hindsight I undervalued Doris’s record. This race still suggests Jane is in ~14:30 shape, and I look forward to seeing both these women tare up the track in their respective disciplines this season.
I think people just didn’t fully register how good Doris’s steeple results actually were. Doris’s steeple résumé in perspective:
- 8:58 NCAA win, time-trial, completely solo, with a 25m lead after one lap - 11th-fastest time ever run (in the world not just NCAA) - World Athletics tables equate it to roughly a 14:17 5k - 5th at Worlds with a fall on the final water jump (likely 3rd or 4th without it) - Hurdling form is only okay. Her dominance comes from fitness, not technique
And her 14:52 5k PB is from indoors, so it underrates her true level. Note that Jane ran 15:13 indoors then 14:57 outdoors, last season.
My takeaway: for Jane to beat Doris, she would’ve needed to be in ~14:20 shape. I thought they were equal favourites, but in hindsight I undervalued Doris’s record. This race still suggests Jane is in ~14:30 shape, and I look forward to seeing both these women tare up the track in their respective disciplines this season.
I think people just didn’t fully register how good Doris’s steeple results actually were. Doris’s steeple résumé in perspective:
- 8:58 NCAA win, time-trial, completely solo, with a 25m lead after one lap - 11th-fastest time ever run (in the world not just NCAA) - World Athletics tables equate it to roughly a 14:17 5k - 5th at Worlds with a fall on the final water jump (likely 3rd or 4th without it) - Hurdling form is only okay. Her dominance comes from fitness, not technique
And her 14:52 5k PB is from indoors, so it underrates her true level. Note that Jane ran 15:13 indoors then 14:57 outdoors, last season.
My takeaway: for Jane to beat Doris, she would’ve needed to be in ~14:20 shape. I thought they were equal favourites, but in hindsight I undervalued Doris’s record. This race still suggests Jane is in ~14:30 shape, and I look forward to seeing both these women tare up the track in their respective disciplines this season.
If Jane in 14:30 shape, there would have been a 30 second gap between her and 3rd place. A WA table equivalent isn’t always accurate from the steeple. Courtney Frerichs also ran 8:58 and there’s no way she could have run 14:17. Evan Jager’s 8:00 is equivalent to 12:47, a time couldn’t possibly run.
I think people just didn’t fully register how good Doris’s steeple results actually were. Doris’s steeple résumé in perspective:
- 8:58 NCAA win, time-trial, completely solo, with a 25m lead after one lap - 11th-fastest time ever run (in the world not just NCAA) - World Athletics tables equate it to roughly a 14:17 5k - 5th at Worlds with a fall on the final water jump (likely 3rd or 4th without it) - Hurdling form is only okay. Her dominance comes from fitness, not technique
And her 14:52 5k PB is from indoors, so it underrates her true level. Note that Jane ran 15:13 indoors then 14:57 outdoors, last season.
My takeaway: for Jane to beat Doris, she would’ve needed to be in ~14:20 shape. I thought they were equal favourites, but in hindsight I undervalued Doris’s record. This race still suggests Jane is in ~14:30 shape, and I look forward to seeing both these women tare up the track in their respective disciplines this season.
If Jane in 14:30 shape, there would have been a 30 second gap between her and 3rd place. A WA table equivalent isn’t always accurate from the steeple. Courtney Frerichs also ran 8:58 and there’s no way she could have run 14:17. Evan Jager’s 8:00 is equivalent to 12:47, a time couldn’t possibly run.
Its important to note that "equivalent" doesn't mean they can run that time, its just a way to equate how good a performance in one event in terms of another.
The third placer, Hilda Olemomoi ran 14:52 indoors in 2024 (3rd place, 8 secs behind Jane). So shes a legit runner who could be in 14:40s shape. So this race in my opinion does not refute that Jane is in 14:30s shape. Of course its hard to know either way.
Based on past performances at mile/3000/5000 Lemngole should not be 13 seconds better at 6K or any other flat distance in cross country or track. Hedengren wasn't prepared for this race. More outcomes like this and her father/former coach will be looking for an alternative development path. Unfortunately, I don't think that there is any coach in the NCAA capable of fully developing the talent that Hedengren has. I give you the long time under performance of Stanford University as Exhibit A. I give you the ruination of Katelyn Tuohy at NC State. I give you the shocking post-collegiate improvement of Taylor Roe. Just think: until Valby came along no college athlete had broken 15 minutes. But Valby's college performances were the product of a very non-standard workout regime. College coaches live by their recruiting, not be their development of talent. And, on the men's side, that's why the dominant majority of top athletes are not from the USA.
