top 10 i wud say for both. maybe top 5 when i think about it. usa has not had too many top middle/long dist guys. i think usa is equal to sweden give or take...if u look at top 5.
in the top 10 guys like ryun, rupp, salazar and maybe mills have a place.
Goucher has to go. She focused on Hoppel in the 800 even after the race. Hoey was totally disrespected. She focused on Hiltz in the mile rather than Bell or even MacLean. But the world records should have been discussed throughout the race.
Goucher is solely focused on pronouns and does not care about being a good announcer.
That is truly one of the best results in US running history, without a doubt.
But "results" are not the same as "races." Because most of us didn't watch that race (time zone, not on NBC, etc.) we only found out about it as "news" instead of sharing the moment. And because most of us don't follow the world women's steeple scene that closely, we can't really remember who they beat. That is why it has less value as a lived experience to fans of the sport.
Here's an old and epic duel...Lindgren versus Pre at the 1969 Pac 8 XC Champs. Neck and neck the entire way, bumping and pushing all the way to a near dead heat. No, not a WR, but it was a course record and an amazing race, even if it was a looong time ago.
That is truly one of the best results in US running history, without a doubt.
But "results" are not the same as "races." Because most of us didn't watch that race (time zone, not on NBC, etc.) we only found out about it as "news" instead of sharing the moment. And because most of us don't follow the world women's steeple scene that closely, we can't really remember who they beat. That is why it has less value as a lived experience to fans of the sport.
But yes, the result is objectively amazing!
The 2025 Millrose 3000 was good but the 2017 Women's Steeple World Championship final was better. It was a better race, on a better and bigger stage, in a better setting, was viewed and will be remembered by more fans of the sport, and had better and more impressive US results.
Coburn and Frerichs finished first and second as underdogs in a global final. We knew going in that Fisher and Hocker were the two favorites, and Millrose indoor was not a global final.
The women's 3000m steeplechase is an event contested at global championships. The men's 3000 meters is not. You can bet that more fans of the sport were watching and remember a world championship final than some indoor 3000m
The 2017 Womens Steeple itself was dramatic and memorable, with wrong turns, falls, 3-4 lead changes on the last lap, and extraordinary results.
One of the favorites Chepkoech while leading somehow misses the turn to the first water jump, and her teammate yells at her to inform her of the error. Chepkoech has to turn around and run the wrong way to backtrack to stay in the race. Despite losing 40 meters on the field, and then falling over a barrier while chasing, she catches the leaders by halfway. She surges to the lead at the bell, but ultimately finishes fourth.
Chepkoech comes back the next summer and beats the old World Record by 12 seconds, and her time is still the record.
At the head of the final back straight the three African women are in front of the two US women and they seem poised to kick away to fight it out for the win, as has occurred many times before.
Frerichs is in 5th place and losing ground at the bell, but she catches up and shockingly surges on the back straight. That move dropped Jebet, the defending Olympic champion and world record holder. Frerichs goes into lane three to just about take the lead, and is neck and neck with the leader Jepkemoi (the defending world champion) entering the final turn. Frerichs drops back to third but then passes on the outside over the water jump. She hangs on to claim a wildly unexpected silver medal running a massive 15 second personal best.
Coburn was a known contender coming into this race as the defending Olympic bronze medalist. But she falls back to 5th place at the start of the backstraight. She is still in fourth with three barriers to go, and third entering the final water jump turn,. But she amazingly passes two runners on the inside to take the lead over the water jump, and powers away to a 9:02 win that few could have predicted. That was a new championship and American record, an 8 second personal best, and still her fastest time ever.
To have two US runners finish first and second in a global final, in a dramatic race, has to be one of the very top all-time US best distance races ever.
The Millrose 3k was a world record, but it was an indoor world record.
This women's 3000k steeple final ranks higher than the Millrose 3000. It should not be ignored because this one poster did not make the effort to watch this race live, or perhaps does not care much about US women's distance running.
Honestly, those races were 1 & 2 US duels that I can recall from the last 50 years. Maybe a Ryun-Liquori duel in the mile came close for pure racing to the line … but 1/2 and 1/3 all time? Never that I can remember.
Nuguse and Fisher were incredible.
And respect to Hocker for going for the WR even though it might have cost him the race. We don’t know that he’d have won if he didn’t go to the lead, but he does know he drove it to beat the prior world record, and did. Fisher just did it one step better.
That is truly one of the best results in US running history, without a doubt.
But "results" are not the same as "races." Because most of us didn't watch that race (time zone, not on NBC, etc.) we only found out about it as "news" instead of sharing the moment. And because most of us don't follow the world women's steeple scene that closely, we can't really remember who they beat. That is why it has less value as a lived experience to fans of the sport.
But yes, the result is objectively amazing!
With all due respect, I think you need to speak for yourself on this one. I distinctly remember watching the race live and being excited about it. The race started at 4:25 pm Eastern Time, so the time zone wasn’t a big issue. And the board was buzzing about it when it happened.
That is truly one of the best results in US running history, without a doubt.
But "results" are not the same as "races." Because most of us didn't watch that race (time zone, not on NBC, etc.) we only found out about it as "news" instead of sharing the moment. And because most of us don't follow the world women's steeple scene that closely, we can't really remember who they beat. That is why it has less value as a lived experience to fans of the sport.
Liquori over a returning Jim Ryun in the Dream mile of 1971. If we are limiting this to races where two great American runners faced off and produced a fast and competitive race. Plus track got more attention from the general sports fan base back then
I'd have to give the 3k the nod over yesterday's mile in that the lead changed hands twice in the late going and once in the final stretch.
Don't know why but I found myself rooting for Cole to hold Grant off yesterday. I did not have a rooting favorite going in but I think Cole's brave move with 600m to go is why.
Thank you for remembering the Liquori v Ryan Dream Mile of '71. That race had an incredible build up and excitement as the two toed the line. Don't get me wrong, this year's Millrose Games had numerous great races, it's just too bad there was little mainstream hype and most Americans still don't know World and American Records were broken.
Liquori over a returning Jim Ryun in the Dream mile of 1971. If we are limiting this to races where two great American runners faced off and produced a fast and competitive race. Plus track got more attention from the general sports fan base back then
I'd have to give the 3k the nod over yesterday's mile in that the lead changed hands twice in the late going and once in the final stretch.
Don't know why but I found myself rooting for Cole to hold Grant off yesterday. I did not have a rooting favorite going in but I think Cole's brave move with 600m to go is why.
Thank you for remembering the Liquori v Ryan Dream Mile of '71. That race had an incredible build up and excitement as the two toed the line. Don't get me wrong, this year's Millrose Games had numerous great races, it's just too bad there was little mainstream hype and most Americans still don't know World and American Records were broken.
