How does Hasay go from also ran in 10k to one of best US marathoners in history

I believe Alberto first mentioned when Jordan Hasy joined NOP that his long term goal for her was the marathon, so he saw that in her abilities early on.

Young is young wrote:

Jump to it wrote:

So despite being healthy for 9 months leading up to the trials and setting an indoor mile and 3k PR in February, she wasn't in peak fitness in June?

Got it. Thanks for the heads up. Makes perfect sense. I forgot that it takes 10 months, not 9 to drop your 10k ability by over a minute.

Her indoor mile and 3k PRs are from 2015, pre-injury.

https://www.iaaf.org/athletes/united-states/jordan-hasay-219561

EXACTLY!

It is clear to everybody but him I guess that AFTER the injury she didn't get back in good enough shape by the time the trials came around.

Do you just want people to say she's doping? Is that all this thread is about?

Some of us don't think she is. Some of us saw her huge talent in high school and even in college (she may not have ever won a XCountry title but she placed 3rd, 2nd, and 3rd) and always felt she was underperforming when she turned elite afterwards.

Even before this marathon, her training indicated she was capable of sub 31/very low 31 10k times but just never seemed to make it click. Compare her to Emily Sisson, who has run 31:38 10k and just ran a 68:21. They have nearly identical 10k PRs and her half marathon is similar to Hasay's recent half marathon performances.

To me, this marathon performance doesn't seem suspect. She's 25, peak age for racing. It just seems like she's finally hitting her stride and is where she should be.

She would without a doubt run under 31 for 10k on the track with her current fitness. I'm certain she could even go to the next Stanford meet in a couple weeks and at least PR after today if she just ran easy from now until then.

WTFBBQ wrote:

Do you just want people to say she's doping? Is that all this thread is about?

Some of us don't think she is. Some of us saw her huge talent in high school and even in college (she may not have ever won a XCountry title but she placed 3rd, 2nd, and 3rd) and always felt she was underperforming when she turned elite afterwards.

Even before this marathon, her training indicated she was capable of sub 31/very low 31 10k times but just never seemed to make it click. Compare her to Emily Sisson, who has run 31:38 10k and just ran a 68:21. They have nearly identical 10k PRs and her half marathon is similar to Hasay's recent half marathon performances.

To me, this marathon performance doesn't seem suspect. She's 25, peak age for racing. It just seems like she's finally hitting her stride and is where she should be.

Nothing about her race times make me suspect she is using drugs.

It's her coach and team that make me suspect she is using drugs.

Jordan showed really good promise at the end of 2014 with a 15:25 at the CVS 5k on a warm day. I would guess that would be worth a low 15 on the track. Then won the Tufts 10k a few weeks later in 31:39.

No one is questioning she would run sub 31 now.

The question is why did she improve so much?

And Sisson ran 15:12 for 5k indoors in 2015, before getting hurt, then 15:02 indoors this year.

Compare that to a maxed out 15:28 from Hasay who has tried to run fast over 5k (when healthy) for the past 4 years.

Who would you pick over half marathon before this year?

If Hasay was african under Sumgong's coach, we'd be screaming doper.

bottom line. wrote:

No one is questioning she would run sub 31 now.

The question is why did she improve so much?

And Sisson ran 15:12 for 5k indoors in 2015, before getting hurt, then 15:02 indoors this year.

Compare that to a maxed out 15:28 from Hasay who has tried to run fast over 5k (when healthy) for the past 4 years.

Who would you pick over half marathon before this year?

If Hasay was african under Sumgong's coach, we'd be screaming doper.

This here ^ is a nugget!

bottom line. wrote:

No one is questioning she would run sub 31 now.

The question is why did she improve so much?

And Sisson ran 15:12 for 5k indoors in 2015, before getting hurt, then 15:02 indoors this year.

Compare that to a maxed out 15:28 from Hasay who has tried to run fast over 5k (when healthy) for the past 4 years.

Who would you pick over half marathon before this year?

If Hasay was african under Sumgong's coach, we'd be screaming doper.

I'm not big on NOP, but that's an absurd what-if that makes a terrible argument. We actually have a positive test from Sumgong, but we don't have any from Salazar athletes other than Decker-Slaney, who may genuinely have been clean.

bottom line. wrote:

No one is questioning she would run sub 31 now.

The question is why did she improve so much?

And Sisson ran 15:12 for 5k indoors in 2015, before getting hurt, then 15:02 indoors this year.

Compare that to a maxed out 15:28 from Hasay who has tried to run fast over 5k (when healthy) for the past 4 years.

Who would you pick over half marathon before this year?

If Hasay was african under Sumgong's coach, we'd be screaming doper.

Well, you are proof that some people are skeptical of her performance. And some people probably always will be because of her coach, which is a shame. I don't think she is doping, but I do wish she were training with a different group--as long as she's with Alberto, people will question her.

BTW, Sisson's outdoor 5k PR is 15:24... With the exception of those indoor 5ks (which Hasay hasn't run since college, I think?), their times are nearly identical at 5/10k. She and Hasay are both improving a lot this year. And they are almost exactly the same age... No one is questioning Sisson's improvement, so... ?? Both just seem better suited for the longer road races--like Ryan Hall or Desi Linden. Personally, I'm looking forward to what should be an exciting rivalry going forward.

Why is no one talking about her shoes- the Nike Vaporfly 4%? In fact, all the top finishers, women and men, were in the Vaporfly's. I actually thought Edna Kiplagat was retired, yet there she was at age 37 finally winning Boston in the Vaporfly's. I always thought Jordan looked awkward and uncomfortable on the track, so to see her smooth and gliding on the road was phenomenal. She's simply a better road racer, healthier, and better suited for longer distances. Plus the shoes +1.

whoooooo are you? wrote:

You idiots are COMPLETELY MISSING the fact that she was INJURED the year before the Olympics. If she had the build up for the 10,000 that she has had the last year, I have no doubt in my mind she would be approaching 31:00 for the 10k. I don't think she could stay with Huddle, but she would have run much faster than her previous pr.

Her 1:07:55 actually shows she has the fitness to crush 31 minutes right now.

She also finally got some real rest / recovery and is 2 years older now 25, closure to maturation and peak years.

HOW so paula? wrote:

How does someone who spent several years trying to master the 10k and was an also ran, go on to be amonst the greats in the half and marathon. SHe's equal to Goucher, Flanagan, Huddle and the like. All who ran sub 15 for 5k, 30 minutes and change for 10k.

Hasay barely qualified for the trials int he 5k. She barely ran sub 32 for 10k on the track last year.

And now she's running half marathons at her 10k (on the track) pace? A 2:23 at Boston with the only US women who raced faster on Boston being an Olympic champ, an olympic medalist, and last years 6th place finisher in the Olympics.

It defies logic.

And this is the worst part of all of the agencies turning a blind eye (and an open hand to bribes) towards doping--anytime someone runs a great race, the question is there--did he/she dope?

Ryan Hall has run one solid track race since HS despite many years of running on the track. Hall's 10k PR is 28:07.

Ritz dropped from 13:12 to 12:56 in one season.

Solinsky dropped from 13:18 season best (13:12 pr) to 12:55/26:59 in ~7 months.

Mo Ahmed went from running ~13:35 in college with 0 speed to 13:01 in just a few years.

All of these things are most suspect than anything Rupp or Hasay have ever done but people ignore them because we like those runners?

Ryan Hall ran 28:07 on the track, his pr, in 2007. The same year he ran an American Record 59:43 half marathon.

Jump to it wrote:

[quote]dasasdfa wrote:

Please show me all the 59:40 half guys whose PR, after spending years on the track racing the 10k, is only 28:00?

Les wrote:

Ryan Hall ran 28:07 on the track, his pr, in 2007. The same year he ran an American Record 59:43 half marathon.

Jump to it wrote:

[quote]dasasdfa wrote:

Please show me all the 59:40 half guys whose PR, after spending years on the track racing the 10k, is only 28:00?

But is "after spending years on the track racing the 10k" valid for Hall, and was his '07 10000m in Palo Alto a tactical (slowish) race?

I'm surprised nobody has mentioned the shoes. As soon as she switched to the roads and started wearing the vaporfly 4% her times dropped instantly. Could they actually work that much?

I basically think they are all doping, so I'll just state that first.

However, based on VDOT, my 1500m, half, and marathon all line up well. But my 5000m and 10000m suck. I don't know why I always struggled at those distances, but I did.

Dingler wrote:

I'm surprised nobody has mentioned the shoes. As soon as she switched to the roads and started wearing the vaporfly 4% her times dropped instantly. Could they actually work that much?

The show are mentioned and yes they do work that much.