jacked wrote:
oofk wrote:He can't coach any distance. The only truly world class performances that he has credit for are those of Rupp.... And that took him 10 years to do.
He doesn't get credit for Centrowitz and Rowbury?
Hasay is knocking on the door of world class as well.
He coached Mo Farah from ~10th in the world to 1st - and deserves massive credit for it
Going from merely "one of the best" to "best" is a VERY hard few places to climb, especially at age ~30
jacked wrote:
oofk wrote:He can't coach any distance. The only truly world class performances that he has credit for are those of Rupp.... And that took him 10 years to do.
He doesn't get credit for Centrowitz and Rowbury?
Hasay is knocking on the door of world class as well.
Centrowitz and Rowbury were world championship medalists before they joined NOP
Arne Gabius is much older. Arne may not have broken 215 in NYC. Luke should have debuted on a flatter course. A hilly course makes the marathon feel like30. Add in the wind and its worse. I know from years of observation that being tall is more harmful in the wind. Every inch adds to the wall the wind hits....
It's not very fair to question a coach just because one of his athletes has a bad debut performance.
The marathon is a difficult race. It's not uncommon for debuts to go badly. Maybe he went out too fast?
cbenson4 wrote:
It's not very fair to question a coach just because one of his athletes has a bad debut performance.
The marathon is a difficult race. It's not uncommon for debuts to go badly. Maybe he went out too fast?
Are you familiar with the first NOP? It's not one of his athletes, literally all his athletes have underperformed in the marathon.
TLW wrote:
TrackCocah wrote:RUKM!
Luke had a bad race as do about 50% of debutaunts. This race is not an indictment Luke or AlSal, after all Luke has a 1:01 half on his resume.
2:18 would have been a bad race. 2:28 is beyond that.
AlSal cannot train marathoners. This has been proven time and time again all the way back to the early 2000s when the original Nike Oregon Project was strictly a marathon group and no one in the group ran what would be considered even a decent elite marathon time for that era.
I'd say he hasn't had tremendous success especially compared to the track, but I wouldn't say he's had no success
Not saying he was a world elite, but Dan Browne was hthe US champ in an Olympic year under al sal, while also running 5k/10k prs in 2004.
Ritz ran by far his best marathon under alsal
Kara wasn't too shabby under alsal either with her best time run and didn't get better after leaving.
Off topic, but the discussion about Alberto and his runners brings us right back to this thread:
http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=6080781&page=0
Alberto is a classic example of a coach who has run his entire life and it is showing in which he is having them avoid doing what he did "wrong" (which still gave him a 2:08:xx or whatever time he ran back in the 80s).
know-it-all joe wrote:
He coached Mo Farah from ~10th in the world to 1st - and deserves massive credit for it
Going from merely "one of the best" to "best" is a VERY hard few places to climb, especially at age ~30
No, most of the 9 people in front of him switched events, retired, or have had injury problems. He didn't go to the best. The best left.
Salazar, is not the best coach of the world that's Bull shit.
the world has better coaches that him, he is on my list as the last coach i would call.
i would use a high coach better that him.
2:28 is a fine time!
A little perspective. Most of us that are close to pushing 60 years old remember Al as a tough racer that was arguably the best in the world for a couple years. No one can take away his Boston and New York victories. From this we all assumed that he must know a lot about the marathon. WE WERE WRONG. Al has done a terrific job at other distances but has failed in the marathon.
History tells us that Dan Browne is considered one of his success stories in the marathon.
Dan Browne was training for the Twin Cities marathon before NOP was formed. 6 weeks prior to the marathon NOP was formed. Dan moved out to Portland in time for the taper. Dan won the marathon (his debut) in 2:12. He then spent the next 4 years under the direction of Al. HE NEVER RAN FASTER. He did improve other distance but his marathon PR remains with his debut.
The Hansons seem to do a better job of maximizing the athletes ability in the marathon than any other group in the US. Jake Riley debuted in Chicago a couple weeks ago in 2:13 and Luke Puskedra was better coming out of college.
know-it-all joe wrote:
He coached Mo Farah from ~10th in the world to 1st - and deserves massive credit for it
Going from merely "one of the best" to "best" is a VERY hard few places to climb, especially at age ~30
WADA agrees with you. That's why they are testing the hell out of Mo and Galen.
If it's too good to be true.... it normally is.
PERSPECTIVE PAUL wrote:
A little perspective. Most of us that are close to pushing 60 years old remember Al as a tough racer that was arguably the best in the world for a couple years. No one can take away his Boston and New York victories. From this we all assumed that he must know a lot about the marathon. WE WERE WRONG. Al has done a terrific job at other distances but has failed in the marathon.
History tells us that Dan Browne is considered one of his success stories in the marathon.
Dan Browne was training for the Twin Cities marathon before NOP was formed. 6 weeks prior to the marathon NOP was formed. Dan moved out to Portland in time for the taper. Dan won the marathon (his debut) in 2:12. He then spent the next 4 years under the direction of Al. HE NEVER RAN FASTER. He did improve other distance but his marathon PR remains with his debut.
The Hansons seem to do a better job of maximizing the athletes ability in the marathon than any other group in the US. Jake Riley debuted in Chicago a couple weeks ago in 2:13 and Luke Puskedra was better coming out of college.
QFT
TLW wrote:
2:18 would have been a bad race. 2:28 is beyond that.
It's barely an easy Sunday long run.
00:16:19 5k
00:32:20 10k
00:48:30 15k
01:05:04 20k
01:08:44 (13.1)
01:22:31 25k
01:40:52 30k
02:00:11 35k
02:20:16 (40k)
02:28:54
I think Puskedra is not built for the marathon. The kid is like 6'5" and goofy. He is not coordinated and not very efficient... poor footstrike and positioning.
Look at Kipsang. That dude is the most efficient runner on the planet. Did you see his form at Mile 26? Just like it was a Mile 1. He absolutely broke Desisa's form (left leg flopping like a dead fish).
Puskedra should stick to a solid road career (10K-30K US Champ-style races).
i wear adidas wrote:
Can you at least admit the coach makes the runner and not vice versa?
Do you mean the runner makes the coach, and not vice versa?
oofk wrote:
[quote]i wear adidas wrote:
He can't coach any distance. The only truly world class performances that he has credit for are those of Rupp.... And that took him 10 years to do.
He took Rupp from scratch and had him the best high schooler in the nation in a year, had him break Chapa's long standing 28:32 for 10000 junior record by 17 seconds in 3 years, very few American juniors can run 5000 at that pace (14:07.5)
It took him 10 years as you say to get him to where he is now 26:44 for 10000, if its just a matter of years to get runners to 26:44 for 10000 then all coaches should coach the same runner for 10 years.
Side note Lindgren's 6 mile as a junior converts to a 28:09 for 10000, still Salazar had a lot of success right away with Rupp.
The fact none of the other high school runners Salazar coached had Rupp's success proves even if your a top coach your not the right coach for everybody, and talent is needed in most sports especially running.
douglas burke wrote:
He took Rupp from scratch and had him the best high schooler in the nation in a year, had him break Chapa's long standing 28:32 for 10000 junior record by 17 seconds in 3 years, very few American juniors can run 5000 at that pace (14:07.5)
It took him 10 years as you say to get him to where he is now 26:44 for 10000, if its just a matter of years to get runners to 26:44 for 10000 then all coaches should coach the same runner for 10 years.
He did not take Rupp from scratch nor did I say that it is just a matter of years. Your reading comprehension is bad.
