Loudoun Valley Boys SWEEP Virginia State Championships

They also would have crushed the 5A and 6A (incl. Webb's old program of South Lakes) champs. They had three juniors and two seniors in this sweep, and they had a sixth man, who is just a sophomore, place eighth. They must be doing a lot right.

Is their seventh man, something Windle, related to Drew?

Kvothe wrote:

6 state meet races is kind of ridiculous.

Well, you must never have coached a team in a classification with schools with 100 to 1000+ more students than your school! It´s brutal the difference in team size AND team quality too! Ever go to a meet & a school in your classification pulls up with multiple buses!?! Good luck racing them!

I´m all for the 6 Classification! Matter of fact, something else has to happen because it´s simply NOT fair. There are schools fudging student population/enrollment & it´s oh-so frustrating. There are school systems coming from very affluent areas as well. How do you race money!?!

I do like the fact that Great Meadow has been the venue for so many years, but not allowing spectators on any part of the course (like yesterday) is a let down. It's like having a HS basketball championship and the fans pay $10 to watch it on TV and the teams play in an empty gym. Not right.

I don't understand this, since at the invitationals held here earlier in the season, spectators can go on the course. Yesterday was the first time at the state meet I have seen spectators actually fenced off with that orange plastic fencing and unable to go out on the course (outside of the starting area). Yes, they have never been allowed on the inner, fenced in section of the course where the teams begin the race, but in years past, it was a simple matter to go around the fenced area and get out on the rest of the course, and it was not restricted. I believe this was done to protect the course conditions this year, though I did not think the course was bad- it wasn't really wet, the grass was a little long (but nothing like 2 years ago) and times were slow yesterday, but the wind was the biggest factor in that. I think spectators could have been out on the course sections that were usually open for the state meet. There was no reason to restrict those areas. I will say that unless you can run around, it is not a great spectator course, even when you CAN get out on the course. Most parents just park themselves where they can see the start and the finish. And they get to pay their $10 to see nothing but the start and finish. What a rip off.

Fair Facts Runner wrote:

That entire post about Colonel Affolder making an enormous sacrifice and giving his son a huge gift is simply reinforcing the argument that Sam is attending Loudoun Valley purely for athletic reasons.

Thanks for that insider's admission, Colonel Affolder! I mean, I know you didn't even consider the quality of the education being offered at LVHS in Purcellville, VA, because you just told us that your son's enrollment at Valley was PURELY for athletic reasons. Oh? You're not the Colonel? Or his wife? Or anyone else in the know?

That's right, you're Fair Facts Runner, a runner or coach or alum of Lake Braddock HS in Fairfax, VA - which lost Affolder to LVHS). Please let go of your seething, petty jealousy and relax your sphincter a little, because although you did lose the Affolder Sweepstakes, you also won TWO TEAM STATE CHAMPIONSHIPS on Friday (boys and girls in 6A). Won despite not having the future 3A Boys State Champion on your team roster.

Kvothe wrote:

6 state meet races is kind of ridiculous.

Couldn't agree more. How obnoxious is that - I thought my state was bad with 3 and were MUCH bigger than Virginia.

XC and Track are very conducive to 1 final state meet that incorporates the top in each classification (group or whatever you want to call it). You could get the top XX teams and XX individuals (plus some wild cards) in each classification and that's only 1 more meet. That way you can find out who the best is in each classification and then 1 more meet to figure out who is the best in the state. Why not do that? For sports like football, you would need more than one extra game so I understand not doing it there but for XC and track, it's easy and really determines who is the best.

VA didn't need 6 divisions for cross and track, 4 might have worked nicely if they really felt that 3 wasn't enough. The Meet of Champions idea is nice, but with our state meet already quite late, it would mean no break at all between State and NXR and Foot Locker. I have always thought in track especially it would be nice to have this kind of meet, but with all the post-season meets starting right after state, that would also be hard to do. But other states seem to manage to pull it off.

It is ironic that you would insult my lack of inside knowledge, then go on to make an assumption that I'm affiliated with Lake Braddock. There's more than one school in Fairfax. For the record, and to save the reputations of the Lake Braddock coaches, I will assure you I am not part of their program. Your use of the phrase "lost Affolder to LV" certainly makes it seem like he was recruited, though. Since you brought it up, here are the schools, according to US News, that are ranked higher academically and closer to the Pentagon than Loudoun Valley: Thomas Jefferson McLean Langley Oakton Woodson Yorktown West Springfield Briar Woods Dominion Lake Braddock George Mason Chantilly Patriot Washington-Lee Osbourn Park Broad Run Loudoun County If education was their top priority, choosing one of the 21 schools ranked ahead of Loudoun Valley would make sense. Again, I'm not faulting the Affolders. I will repeat that I would likely do the same if I were placed in the same position.

That's a great way to do it wrote:

gahuga wrote:

I live in a different state now, which uses a different classification scheme for every sport. Football has the seven classes, other team sports tend to have three or four, while XC/track only have two. A few sports are just a single-class free-for-all. It's an interesting system, though some sports cry out for more classes than they currently use.

What state is that?

Minnesota.

Affolders were not recruited by Loudoun Valley in any way. Affolders did not choose LV just for athletics- they wanted the small town, rural atmosphere too, which does not exist in Fairfax anymore ( BTW, I grew up in Fairfax Co.) Connor Wells' family did indeed move to Purcellville. Connor Wells is a JUNIOR, not a senior. I don't think he feels that the move was 'unfortunate'. Freshmen cannot "choose" to go to Loudoun Valley any more as the school is at capacity; therefore, all the freshmen who run for LV live in the LV school zone. I believe there is ONE student on the track and XC teams who has special permission to go to Valley, and she is a senior who started as a freshman or sophomore before the school was at capacity and the special enrollment option ended. Therefore, all students except for one are kids who live in the school zone. And finally, yes, Connor Wells' coach at Freedom now teaches at Valley, and coaches at LV too. He is also a LV grad so this is not such a strange thing, to want to come back and teach and coach in the community you grew up in. Those are the FACTS, Fair Facts Runner.

Why Not a Final Meet? wrote:

XC and Track are very conducive to 1 final state meet that incorporates the top in each classification (group or whatever you want to call it). You could get the top XX teams and XX individuals (plus some wild cards) in each classification and that's only 1 more meet. That way you can find out who the best is in each classification and then 1 more meet to figure out who is the best in the state. Why not do that? For sports like football, you would need more than one extra game so I understand not doing it there but for XC and track, it's easy and really determines who is the best.

Why Not a Final Meet? wrote:

XC and Track are very conducive to 1 final state meet that incorporates the top in each classification (group or whatever you want to call it). You could get the top XX teams and XX individuals (plus some wild cards) in each classification and that's only 1 more meet. That way you can find out who the best is in each classification and then 1 more meet to figure out who is the best in the state. Why not do that? For sports like football, you would need more than one extra game so I understand not doing it there but for XC and track, it's easy and really determines who is the best.

Basically this already is settled at NXN and Footlocker (and some "border clash" meets). Elite kids wouldn't want to compete another meet for what is settled already elsewhere.

6 different races in Virginia? That seems like a lot. 5 sub 16:05 is solid... but that won’t podium in some of the faster states. It couldn’t even win our league here in CA.

How are they going to win nationals?

Are you familiar with our state course? I always wonder when people start talking about XC times with no frame of reference (especially you people from California who have some pretty sorry looking "Cross Country" courses based on videos I have seen, they look like road races half the time. We run on grass here in Virginia, and not just groomed golf courses). Look at last year's NXN times. Those were some pretty slow kids at NXN. Oh, wait a minute...the course was really slow and soft last year. Maybe that explains it...

The VA state course was slower this year than average, especially on Friday. Lots of rain during the week, the grass was long, and there were 15-20 mph winds. The Loudoun Valley boys have actually put 7 boys at 15:55 or faster this year, on grass, on a flat, fast course. I wouldn't go so far as to say this means they are a lock to win NXN, but don't think that their 5th man running 16:05 at the state meet means they don't have a prayer either. Pretty sure the LV boys would do just fine in your league race.

I couldn't agree more about how ridiculous 6 divisions for cross country are in Virginia. That was a football driven decision, I am pretty sure.

Does Tinman coach all these kids too?

YMMV wrote:

Why Not a Final Meet? wrote:

XC and Track are very conducive to 1 final state meet that incorporates the top in each classification (group or whatever you want to call it). You could get the top XX teams and XX individuals (plus some wild cards) in each classification and that's only 1 more meet. That way you can find out who the best is in each classification and then 1 more meet to figure out who is the best in the state. Why not do that? For sports like football, you would need more than one extra game so I understand not doing it there but for XC and track, it's easy and really determines who is the best.

Basically this already is settled at NXN and Footlocker (and some "border clash" meets). Elite kids wouldn't want to compete another meet for what is settled already elsewhere.

There are some states (that are represented at NXN and Footlocker) who have this though.

Agree with you on the course comparison. People dont know what other courses are like. CA does have some tough ones. Their state meet isn’t crazy fast either as you can compare past FL West times to GO of this era.

That said I don’t think 15:55 for a 5th man on a slow course, let alone a fast one, is good enough to make nationals let alone win.

We have a team in our league that had 7 guys under 15:40 and an 8th JV guy under 16 but could be third at state and 4th-6th in the merge. With only 2 going to NXN That’s tough. So either CA needs more autos or the regions are weak. I don’t think they are thus I’m wondering how better teams stay him when LV will make it?

Fair Facts Runner wrote: “If education was their top priority, choosing one of the 21 schools ranked ahead of Loudoun Valley would make sense.”

There are around 37,000 students at the seventeen schools Fair Facts Runner listed. 1,330 or so at Loudoun Valley. I just want to congratulate each of those 37,000 kids for getting a superior education to that afforded Sam Affolder and his schoolmates at Loudoun Valley. You know, that shamefully-inadequate facility of learning, Loudoun Valley High School, rated “only” 22nd among ALL high schools in VA.

Guess what? That ain’t too shabby! US News and World Report ranks the school in the top 4% nationally, out of more than 22,000 US schools ranked. Again, not too shabby!

To put it in a running perspective that maybe, just maybe, Fair Facts Runner can comprehend, in all six divisions of the boys VA State Championship races there were 614 runners. To finish with the 25th fastest time out of the 614 runners means you’re just over that 4th percentile mark. 25th place in ALL RACES COMBINED shows that the kid is a pretty damn good runner!

Loudoun Valley is a pretty damn good high school!

But, apparently to our elitist Unfairfax poster, if you’re not a graduate of Harvard High, Yale High, Stanford High, or any one of “the elite seventeen” in the person’s list, or one of the other four not listed (impressive schools, every one), then you might as well just write off your life’s opportunities as second-rate or worse.

Hey, Fair Facts Runner, OF COURSE education wasn’t the Affolders’ top priority. It was A PART of the total picture that they studied before committing their promising athletic kid, and another son, to Loudoun Valley. Taking into account some of the other tremendous attributes cited by poster I will probably regret this, the total value of the deal pointed the Affolders to Loudoun Valley. Despite Fair Facts Runner's snootiness, they made an excellent academic choice in Loudoun Valley. And an excellent lifestyle choice.

Reminds me of the garbage floating around message boards when Loudoun Valley's own Drew Hunter was deciding on a college and then made his choice. Some know-it-alls said Drew would be a fool not to choose the ideal Stanford education. What’s this? He accepted a scholarship to a STATE SCHOOL called Oregon? Oregon!!! A school that has morons as graduates! Some of those same posters decreed that Drew was a fool to “take the money and run” when adidas offered him an allegedly rich contract.

There are a lot of arrogant idiots in this world, some who are brilliant in selected ways but woefully inadequate between the ears in others. Such a person decides that the phrase “lost Affolder to LV” “certainly makes it seem like he was recruited”. Consider the possibility that “lost Affolder to LV” means that the Affolders, using their own minds, made their own choice that had nothing to do with Fair Facts Runner’s twisted outsider's definition of “recruited”, and that Lake Braddock simply didn’t luck out on getting this great talent. Screw the “recruitment” bull!

Fair Facts Runner claims to have no affiliation in any way with the Fairfax high school which lost out to Loudoun Valley in getting Sam. That may be so, but on this anonymous message board let me just claim to be a 4:02 miler. And female. And I was valedictorian of Thomas Jefferson High School, ranked #1 on that list. It must be true, because it's now on the Internet. I wouldn't lie.

In regards to the state meet always being held at the same course for all classes/divisions, that is done in other states as well. Michigan has held the state XC for all four divisions on the infield and outer grounds of the Michigan International Speedway (MIS) since 1996. It is a flat, fast course and many fans/coaches/athletes have complained about it over the years. They feel it isn't a "real" cross country course (it is very flat), it isn't spectator friendly (it is one very large loop and it is very difficult to cut across the center between different parts), and on bad weather days, the later races are run on a very torn up course (eight races are run over the course of the day).

There are a few reasons why the MHSAA continues to hold it there every year. First of all, for many years, each class/division held its own meet in a different location and different courses hosted the meet each year. The MHSAA was having a lot of difficulty finding courses that could logistically host the meet and do it correctly. Having all four meets at one place reduced the amount of administrative/logistical work it took to put on the meet(s). There is virtually unlimited parking, since MIS hosts auto races of 150,000 plus fans in the summer. It is also a place where it is very easy to control access for the fans.

In 1996, only coaches (three per team) were allowed on the course during the races and the fans had to sit in the grandstand and basically watch with binoculars (except for the finish, which is along the inside of the front straightaway of the race track). I remember being at the mile mark (which is pretty far out on the course) that year and it was only me, two other coaches, and two race officials there. Except for the number of runners, it felt like a dual meet. Fortunately, the next year, they opened up the course to spectators as well, allowing for thousands to be cheering the runners at most points of the course.

MIS is also a very fair course, with a very long start/finish that makes sure no team has an advantage/disadvantage. Since it is the only meet run there all year, it is a neutral site. While I wouldn't mind seeing a couple of hills on the course, I would rather see the kids running a faster course at the end of the season when they are in their best shape and given the best opportunity for a PR to finish the year.

It is definitely not a perfect situation, but the state meet is run very well and fairly each year. This helps make sure the participating athletes have the fairest chance to succeed on that day. When people have complained about it, they ask if anyone would like to take on hosting the event with its very specific requirements, and very few, if any people are willing to volunteer. I suspect the people who put on the state meet in Virginia are in the same position. They probably know the downsides to hosting it the way they do, but they also probably feel it is the overall best case scenario they have.