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|monkey in the middle|
You're an idiot, the problem with the womens race was a mistake by the timing company, not the meet organizers. Having the meet in an actual city and not some town in a freaking corn field is one of the best decisions the NCAA made in this sport. Hopefully, the NCAA will bear this in mind when making location decisions in the future.
Nothing happened. When official results came out, correct winners were announced. I think it has been related in several places that the unofficial results had Providence over Oregon and Florida State back a spot. Some say Harvey says that upset her team, but how does a premature announcement after the race effect how your team ran during the race? By all other accounts, people have not said anything bad about the organization of the race have they?
Well throwing out people's names and claiming they said something or did something is wrong. Oregon and Florida State realized a runner was left out of the results then protested. It was fixed and Oregon was announced as the winners. They waited till after the men's race to release the rest of the corrected results. Sorry it's not as exciting as you want it to be. This is what happened. Let's stop making up things. Please and thank you.
This is incorrect. Something indeed did happen. No one seems to know what happened.
Mike Knapp, the reporter on the scene for us, was with Oregon when they were told they had won. The unofficial results on the telecast also had Oregon as the winner.
So far so good.
Now the problem occurs. Then Providence was announced on the loud speaker as the champions. Providence also was put on the video board as the champions and the words "Official" were listed as shown by this pic which someone posted on the mboard:
Now where did that pic come from? Weldon seemed to think it came from flotrack. Not true. It came from the U of L twitter account.
It even says under neath it "Now Until the protest period expires, official team results for women's race."
I still don't understand what happened. David Monti reported Pappas was simply left out of the initial Oregon score.
That to me doesn't explain it because if you take out Pappas and add in Oregon's #6 - you would add 70 points to Oregon's total (difference between 77 and 3 but everyone moves up a place), which would give them 184 and yet it says 180 .
At some point an FSU girl was listed as DQ, adding to the confusion (this is why FSU dropped from the top 8 at the point of maximum confusion).
I was going by Dave Monti's explanation. To say "something happened but nobody knows what happened" is not a valid explanation. So until you can tell us what happened there is no correct or incorrect scenario.
I was looking at the Delta results on line shortly after the race finished. Here is what I recall seeing:
--First unofficial results have Oregon comfortably winning.
--After a while, Providence is shown to be the winners on the on line stream. At this point, the results are screwed up on the Delta site. Finishers 1-4 are listed in places 26-29, but with their correct times. Pappas, running for Oregon, is listed as finishing in the top 3 with a time slower than those listed in places 26-29.
--The Delta site stops showing the results.
--Eventually the Delta site comes back up, with Pappas nowhere in the results (at least I didn't see her listed).
--The Delta site goes off line again.
--Eventually Oregon is declared the winner, and Pappas shows up in the results.
I observed exactly what mcgato describes. It was rather strange because shortly after the initial "correct" screen showed, the placing began to convolute. Pappas (and a few others) started showing up in incorrect placings, and the team scores started changing. Eventually, the screen showed Pappas in second place...and then in first place, with the actual top runners moved down into the pack. I suspect that when the problem was "corrected", the #1 person (Pappas)at that instant was somehow dropped when the "fixing" occured. A mess?....YES!
Congratulations on a tremendous race by the Oregon girls, they deserved better than this on "their day".
The posted 'official' picture has the correct scores just with the two runners missing (chip timing miss/error?). If two top runners are missing all the other reported team scores will be lower by ten points than the actual which is what we see:
Oregon - missing runner
Providence - (-9) one Providence runner was ahead of the missing FSU runner, so only incorrect by nine points
Stanford - (-10)
Florida State - missing runner
Michigan - (-10)
Arizona - (-10)
Duke - (-11) maybe another missing runner between 117 and 124, or chip vs. actual finish position correction
Connecticut - (-10)
Washington - (-10)
and Oregon's score being off of Rojo's calculation is due to him not considering the missing FSU runner:
3 replaces 75 (position in incorrect results) = -72
Oregon's 3,4,5 bumped up by two runners = +6
I was only comfortable putting in my story what I was able to actually document. This is what happened:
I was first able to document that Alexi Pappas was left out of the first cut of the results. That is what, in part, gave rise to the official PA announcement that Providence had won.
Right after that, I was looking for a printed copy of the results because none had been made available to the media in either of the two media tents. They were, however, posted in the athlete recovery tent, but security wouldn't let Curtis Anderson (Register-Guard) or me into the tent to look at them.
So, I handed my BlackBerry to a coach (sorry, didn't get his name), who photographed the first page of the women's results for me. In that photo, you can see that Alexi was included, but that Amanda Winslow was not. I didn't know that Amanda had been missed until Coach Harvey told me that when I spoke with her a few minutes later. She told me that she had protested and that Amanda had been added back to the results after initially being listed as disqualified.
As such, I was able to document those two omissions in that order, which is what I put in my story. However, there may have been OTHER omissions which I didn't know about which had an impact on the scoring when Providence was announced as the winner. I just could not verify that.
Finally, I have no first-hand knowledge of a fist fight in the recovery or media tents between any two teams. That's the kind of thing I'd never put in a story unless I had at least two witnesses who were willing to go on the record about it.
David Monti, Race Results Weekly
I wasn't there, but this is ridiculous. It seems the timers put out results without checking chips against some independent data stream.
I mean -- come on! I used to be a timer, and I can tell you there's no mystery to how a big-time event's done. Chips can be missed, period, so you never go on the chip data stream alone. Never.
Sometimes I give Pat Leone (Leone Timing and Results) a hand. I was there for the MAC XC championships, and Pat backed up his chip timing with hip numbers, a FinishLynx camera on each side of the line, and an IndentiLynx camera showing finish line arrivals.
And we went through L and R cameras plus IdentiLynx before we put anything out. I doubt that it added 10 minutes to the process and when we posted results (handing out many copies to different people, by the way) they were accurate.
Big races only? Nope. Last weekend I helped at the NY State XC championships near Buffalo. Even for a HS meet, Pat brought the same equipment -- the Lynx setups plus hip numbers -- and we sat in the trailer and verified every finisher in every race, using L and R cameras and the IdentiLynx. It didn't take long.
If the timers didn't do at the NCAAs what we do even for a HS meet, they don't deserve to have the job again.
I had better say again that I only help Pat out from time to time. I'm no longer in the business and have no stake in his company.
Do the meet officials never review these results anymore? I thought they had to sign a copy and then it could be reviewed and there would be a protest period - then the results were made official. I see mistakes routinely in high school meets and now at this level - I'm truly shocked!
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