Woman is fired from job, deported from China for running outside. How key were draconian measures to China's Covid-19 success?

Having traveled in China this last Fall, thankfully before COVID-19 emerged, I can say that the CCP possesses granular and detailed knowledge of the movements and activities of every single human being in that country. Every cell phone, assigned and locked to each individual. Every abode monitored, the authorities knowing exactly who lives there and who is there at any given time. I never once was anywhere, even in rural areas, when I could not look up and see multiple cameras trained on the spot where I was. In even small cities, the number of cameras trained on any place I stood or sat counted in the tens, or more, at any given moment.

China is an absolute lock down surveillance society and culturally, and practically, there is no concept of acceptable individual 'rights'. The average person doesn't feel much of this intrusiveness on a day to day basis, but the CCP can absolutely lock every human being down, overnight if need be. Still now, every human in Wuhan and surrounding areas is checked for temperature by the authorities multiple times every single day. I could go on and on but the point is that the capacity for complete control is anathema to us in the west while also being mighty useful in times of crisis.

The Chinese are also very different culturally in that harmony, the group, society are all much more important than one person, and they are all raised to believe in the greater good from birth. They will comply with whatever the CCP instructs, period.

I love our country and would never want to live in a state like China, but am afraid that we are collectively way behind the curve here and about to lose numbers of people that will approach or eclipse losses in WWII.

As you suggest, China was successful because they can control their population.

This was what worked in China:

1. Leave apartment block - get your temp taken

2. Enter public transit - get your temp taken

3. Enter grocery store - get your temp taken

4. If any of the above show fever; taken to testing centre.

5. Test given; result in 60 min.

6. If positive; taken directly to stand alone quarantine centre. Your family was notified but you didn't go home to get any belongings.

Obviously this would not work in the west as we have these "pesky" things called human rights.

what would work is a south korea style approach. We don't have that capability, so we'll never know how well that would have worked and how many billions of dollars that could have saved our economy.

Rojo, There is ZERO evidence so far that warmer weather will help to stop the spread of the virus. While this would be great if it does, and I hope it does, assuming that it will is not helpful

https://www.who.int/emergencies/diseases/novel-coronavirus-2019/advice-for-public/myth-busters

Yeah it will definitely take longer for the spread of the virus to slow in the west, the question is how much longer. In California people are interacting outside of their homes more than they are in Wuhan, but interactions have also decreased significantly. If that's enough to lower R0 below 1 then that will halt the spread of the virus eventually. But practically speaking we need it to drop pretty far below 1 because we can't maintain this situation forever.

China also had other advantages -- they were better at testing people and tracking down and quarantining individuals who had contact with infected individuals. We'll be able to do that eventually I hope.

As draconian as it sounds, The Chinese approach is probably the best.

And even if it might be a little bit of over reaching, right now overreacting is a lot better than underreacting.

Flatten the curve, baby!

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/mar/20/er-doctor-coronavirus-exponential-growth

They are lying about having beaten this. And it's definitely a lie about everyone having their temperature taken multiple times a day. Just like it's a lie that their citizens hardly even notice how obtrusive their government is. The people of China hate their government, just like the North Koreans hate their government.

Nope, you're the one that's lying. Hard to admit that the Chinese have it (relatively) better, but they do.

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/china/

This women broke the 14 day mandatory quarantine on purpose, and when confronted started screaming at security claiming harassment. When police showed up at her apartment she was extremely entitled and refused to co-operate.

The best bit, the entire fiasco was recorded as per policy of the chinese CDC protocol.

Les wrote:

Nope, you're the one that's lying. Hard to admit that the Chinese have it (relatively) better, but they do.

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/china/

I've been following that same tracker. If you look at the source where the numbers are reported from it's China's government. All it's saying is no new cases in Wuhan or Hubei. What about the rest of the country? Before they locked Wuhan down nearly 1/3 of it's inhabitants fled. So what's happening in the rest of China?

Les wrote:

Nope, you're the one that's lying. Hard to admit that the Chinese have it (relatively) better, but they do.

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/china/

Does anyone have any logic left amist all this hysteria? (you're all supposed to be runners, right?...better blood flow to the brain?).

So China is on the gold medal podium bragging about how their Communist-style lockdown is the gold standard because of the limit of only 3200 deaths from the virus? Too funny when 1.1 million die every year from dirty, toxic air pollution! (that's an average of 3000 day!). They could just as well run a daily ticker count on a "Nationalometer" showing the number of people hospitalized and dying every day from air pollution! The Chinese government doesn't and will never care about that - those are acceptable loses from their standpoint!

Now it's estimated that ~77,000 were saved just from the reduction of the air pollution during the lockdown. Do the math: 77,000 - 3200 = 73,800. Net gain of lives saved were 77,800. But yet they make a big deal about a "virus" that has put the rest of the world in mass hysteria!

Most of the locations getting hammered are areas that have very high pollution levels; Northern Italy, Iran, Spain, etc. Italy also has as a high per-capita rate of smoking, as does Iran & Spain. Combine toxic, dirty air with cigarette smoking and any competent pulmonary doctor will tell you that's a recipe for disaster! Now add in a respiratory virus - and all is not good in the ability to fight off the pathogens. Compromised pulmonary function due to chronic exposure from air pollution and/or cigarette smoking impairs the immune system. And we, as humans, are exposed to all kinds of pathogens on a daily basis.

Notice that the three states that have gone into full panic mode with draconian "Shelter In Place" orders (translation = Home Imprisonment in Place) are states with major cities that have a bad pollution problem (NYC, LA, Chicago)....get the picture here? ?

The China issue is unclear. Either of 2 options have happened...

1) They have stopped the cases, and most of the people never got the virus, in which case the country is STILL vulnerable. I.e they have achieved nothing other than postponing the problem (not nec a bad thing).

2) They have had a lot more cases than reported, and a LOT more deaths.

Which of those is true I'm unsure, but I suspect 2.

Sounds pretty logical. Lets see how India fares. They have the worst air pollution in the world, right?

Rojo, meet Google wrote:

Rojo, There is ZERO evidence so far that warmer weather will help to stop the spread of the virus. While this would be great if it does, and I hope it does, assuming that it will is not helpful

https://www.who.int/emergencies/diseases/novel-coronavirus-2019/advice-for-public/myth-busters

Is that the same WHO that refused to declare it a serious thing when China was giving them bribes not to do so?

There is plenty of circumstantial evidence that hot weather might slow the spread. When the outbreak started in China, there were predictions that Africa countries would go under within weeks due to the massive trade links between the two. I read that Kenya was considered one of the most vulnerable given that its basically a Chinese colony these days like much of Africa. There are still only 7 confirmed cases in Kenya.

Madrid and Lombardy are the two epicenters in Europe and both have two things in common - very cold winters yet massive Chinese tourism in winter.

Over half the cases in Spain are in bitterly cold Madrid. Over half the cases are in Italy are in one region of Northern Italy, and it doesn't appear to be spreading at all in warmer south.

Hot countries like Malaysia and Indonesia can trace nearly all their infections to mass (Muslim) gatherings. In Australia, which is turning to Fall, they have a lot of cases due to First World testing, but few deaths.

China is a failed country wrote:

I've been following that same tracker. If you look at the source where the numbers are reported from it's China's government. All it's saying is no new cases in Wuhan or Hubei. What about the rest of the country? Before they locked Wuhan down nearly 1/3 of it's inhabitants fled. So what's happening in the rest of China?

The data for all the provinces is in the China Provincial tab in the spreadsheet below. There were 41 new cases in China on March 20, all outside Hubei, with the highest province Beijing at 14, and next highest Shanghai at 9.

I'm not sure, but many of the new cases that are still happening might be people flying into China. They have a 14-day quarantine for people arriving.

Is it heat or actual sunlight? I ready something about UV light killing it much faster than no light at all.

Also in China, you need to scan your ID to enter certain areas or public transit. Roadblocks to scan ID and take temperature. The ID checks are so that if someone tests positive, they can track movement and identify others who may have been exposed. Many more people wearing face masks. Everyone is very serious about social distancing. That message has not fully taken hold here. Top leadership here (Trump) was very slow to admit that this is necessary, or that this is a serious pandemic. Trump speaks, confusing message, then Fauci follows to try to clean up message. Trump needs to just defer to the experts. Too many people have listened to Trump's rambling reassurances and heard what they want to hear, and tuned out the experts.

Well, as long there isn't dystopia-like mass surveillance in the west I fear the virus will spread much more widely indeed.

We'll see if China has actually stopped this or if its just lies by the CCP. If they have, good on them, they can be the global superpower while the US has food lines, basic income, and greater than 50% unemployment down the road.