well all you have to do is look at the non NOP runners who are cvery ompetitive in distance races and the answer is staring you right in the face. try to list them, young or older.
well all you have to do is look at the non NOP runners who are cvery ompetitive in distance races and the answer is staring you right in the face. try to list them, young or older.
Muddler wrote:
Seems to be what's going on. No athlete of his doped according to USADA but they convict him of doping violations? Seems odd at the least.
My guess Salazar beats this one eventually, and he will go all the way to beat it.
Amen
I know it shocks some of you diehard fanboys, but yes breaking anti-doping regulations is indeed doping.
Armstronglivs wrote:
he broke the rules wrote:
It sounds to me like Salazar broke the rules, which he did. He gave Magness a transfusion that exceeded 50 mL, told his athletes not to disclose their transfusions, and administered testosterone to his sons. All of these are prohibited doping practices that Salazar orchestrated and facilitated.
So he "orchestrated" doping to just a couple of people? Curious choice of word by USADA if it wasn't suggesting many.
USADA was suggesting that it was several people, but the AAA found no evidence of that and only upheld a few of USADA's charges. USADA isn't the final authority.
Webb's Swim Coach wrote:
Salem MA 01970 wrote:
You all are missing a really important fact: He is a warlock.
Can he swim?
Reference:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zrzMhU_4m-gAn excellent tutorial on sports and logic.
this is in response to the quacks story. which may have been slightly purged already...
i believe you messed up a little. there is a gun in his hand. but no brains on his shirt. and no body laying in the alley.
so your supposition of the brains on shirt and the body in the alley is actually the clearest guilty fact so far. though he did have a chance to use the gun. he only did so on non athletes and they dont count much. what you need to find is the person who's brains were actually blown. who may exist. but perhaps carrying a gun which could blow brains is not the same as having blown them
he broke the rules wrote:
USADA was suggesting that it was several people, but the AAA found no evidence of that and only upheld a few of USADA's charges. USADA isn't the final authority.
Kind of. More precisely:
USADA was suggesting that it was several people, but the AAA found not evidence of that for a conviction and only upheld a few of USADA's charges. USADA isn't the final authority, and neither is the AAA.
Curious. I hope CAS gets involved now.
I meant:
USADA was suggesting that it was several people, but the AAA found not enough evidence of that for a conviction and only upheld a few of USADA's charges. USADA isn't the final authority, and neither is the AAA.
Curious. I hope CAS gets involved now.
casual obsever wrote:
I meant:
USADA was suggesting that it was several people, but the AAA found not enough evidence of that for a conviction and only upheld a few of USADA's charges. USADA isn't the final authority, and neither is the AAA.
Curious. I hope CAS gets involved now.
It is a strange commentary on this sport that when we have a coach who is exposed as crooked there is a rush to believe that his athletes, who have many of them been with him for years, are not involved. You wonder who he was working for.
As a fan of the sport, what I find myself most disillusioned with is the outcry from certain athletes against NOP and anyone affiliated with it. I am not well-informed enough to have an educated opinion with regard to Salazar and whether or not the ban is just. However, the way certain athletes have gone so far out of their way to condemn/accuse/cast judgment on anyone in Salazar's orbit has, in my opinion, been a major black eye for a sport that could use some positive attention. Engels said it best when he called out Jenny Simpson for "getting on her high horse" and casting doubt on a myriad of presumably innocent runners affiliated with Salazar. At elite levels of sport, everyone is trying to get an advantage on the competition. Where is it appropriate to draw the line? Many of the accusations against Salazar do not seem to definitively cross the proverbial line. Is anyone and everyone around Salazar dirty? Probably not. If they were, do I as a fan care? Not really. The reality is that many athletes at the top of all sports push bend the rules in some form or fashion to gain an advantage. As a fan, I am not bothered by that. I accept that it is an inevitable part of elite sport. I am far more bothered by the circle of athletes that are so quick to point fingers unjustly, the backbiting and hypocrisy. Jenny Simpson makes no mention of her possible connection to Dr. Brown, but she casts doubt on all athletes affiliated with NOP. Kara Goucher, a former NOP athlete, was involved closely with Salazar, yet speaks makes very vague and general accusations about Salazar's dealings and seems to point fingers at everyone without naming anyone except for Salazar's "impenetrable inner circle."
To contrast, when Julian Edelman was banned for four games last year for a positive test for a performance enhancing substance, none of the athletes in the NFL said anything. There was no outcry amongst his competitors, despite the fact that he was arguably the top receiver on the best team in the league. Salazar gets banned for doing things that, on the surface, do not appear all that flagrant and the elite distance runners make a mad dash to create the perception that they occupy the moral high ground with no regard for those they've hypocritically trashed and unjustly accused along the way. This behavior is childish when contrasted with the way athletes in other sports handle similar accusations against their competitors.
Whatsthebigdeal wrote:
As a fan of the sport, what I find myself most disillusioned with is the outcry from certain athletes against NOP and anyone affiliated with it. I am not well-informed enough to have an educated opinion with regard to Salazar and whether or not the ban is just. However, the way certain athletes have gone so far out of their way to condemn/accuse/cast judgment on anyone in Salazar's orbit has, in my opinion, been a major black eye for a sport that could use some positive attention. Engels said it best when he called out Jenny Simpson for "getting on her high horse" and casting doubt on a myriad of presumably innocent runners affiliated with Salazar. At elite levels of sport, everyone is trying to get an advantage on the competition. Where is it appropriate to draw the line? Many of the accusations against Salazar do not seem to definitively cross the proverbial line. Is anyone and everyone around Salazar dirty? Probably not. If they were, do I as a fan care? Not really. The reality is that many athletes at the top of all sports push bend the rules in some form or fashion to gain an advantage. As a fan, I am not bothered by that. I accept that it is an inevitable part of elite sport. I am far more bothered by the circle of athletes that are so quick to point fingers unjustly, the backbiting and hypocrisy. Jenny Simpson makes no mention of her possible connection to Dr. Brown, but she casts doubt on all athletes affiliated with NOP. Kara Goucher, a former NOP athlete, was involved closely with Salazar, yet speaks makes very vague and general accusations about Salazar's dealings and seems to point fingers at everyone without naming anyone except for Salazar's "impenetrable inner circle."
To contrast, when Julian Edelman was banned for four games last year for a positive test for a performance enhancing substance, none of the athletes in the NFL said anything. There was no outcry amongst his competitors, despite the fact that he was arguably the top receiver on the best team in the league. Salazar gets banned for doing things that, on the surface, do not appear all that flagrant and the elite distance runners make a mad dash to create the perception that they occupy the moral high ground with no regard for those they've hypocritically trashed and unjustly accused along the way. This behavior is childish when contrasted with the way athletes in other sports handle similar accusations against their competitors.
You mean ignore them? Obviously better.
Armstronglivs wrote:
Whatsthebigdeal wrote:
As a fan of the sport, what I find myself most disillusioned with is the outcry from certain athletes against NOP and anyone affiliated with it. I am not well-informed enough to have an educated opinion with regard to Salazar and whether or not the ban is just. However, the way certain athletes have gone so far out of their way to condemn/accuse/cast judgment on anyone in Salazar's orbit has, in my opinion, been a major black eye for a sport that could use some positive attention. Engels said it best when he called out Jenny Simpson for "getting on her high horse" and casting doubt on a myriad of presumably innocent runners affiliated with Salazar. At elite levels of sport, everyone is trying to get an advantage on the competition. Where is it appropriate to draw the line? Many of the accusations against Salazar do not seem to definitively cross the proverbial line. Is anyone and everyone around Salazar dirty? Probably not. If they were, do I as a fan care? Not really. The reality is that many athletes at the top of all sports push bend the rules in some form or fashion to gain an advantage. As a fan, I am not bothered by that. I accept that it is an inevitable part of elite sport. I am far more bothered by the circle of athletes that are so quick to point fingers unjustly, the backbiting and hypocrisy. Jenny Simpson makes no mention of her possible connection to Dr. Brown, but she casts doubt on all athletes affiliated with NOP. Kara Goucher, a former NOP athlete, was involved closely with Salazar, yet speaks makes very vague and general accusations about Salazar's dealings and seems to point fingers at everyone without naming anyone except for Salazar's "impenetrable inner circle."
To contrast, when Julian Edelman was banned for four games last year for a positive test for a performance enhancing substance, none of the athletes in the NFL said anything. There was no outcry amongst his competitors, despite the fact that he was arguably the top receiver on the best team in the league. Salazar gets banned for doing things that, on the surface, do not appear all that flagrant and the elite distance runners make a mad dash to create the perception that they occupy the moral high ground with no regard for those they've hypocritically trashed and unjustly accused along the way. This behavior is childish when contrasted with the way athletes in other sports handle similar accusations against their competitors.
You mean ignore them? Obviously better.
Why not? Doping isn't going away any time soon. We can speculate all day about who's clean and who isn't, but at the end of day we don't know and never will. Why not just enjoy the show even if it's a farce?
Witchhunt, or coverup?
the show goes on wrote:
Armstronglivs wrote:
You mean ignore them? Obviously better.
Why not? Doping isn't going away any time soon. We can speculate all day about who's clean and who isn't, but at the end of day we don't know and never will. Why not just enjoy the show even if it's a farce?
We do know, if there is a doping violation.
Whatsthebigdeal wrote:
...I am far more bothered by the circle of athletes that are so quick to point fingers unjustly, the backbiting and hypocrisy. Jenny Simpson makes no mention of her possible connection to Dr. Brown, but she casts doubt on all athletes affiliated with NOP. Kara Goucher, a former NOP athlete, was involved closely with Salazar, yet speaks makes very vague and general accusations about Salazar's dealings and seems to point fingers at everyone without naming anyone except for Salazar's "impenetrable inner circle."
...
It's because 2-3rd tier sports like running and cycling enjoy a mass, participation appeal unlike pro sports like football, baseball, etc. Since fans personally participate in running and cycling, they have a personal stake in these sports and are emotionally invested in a way that is a departure from a spectator-based sport like football where they just want to be entertained. A local 5k runner takes it personally when an elite runner gets popped. Nobody cares if a pro linebacker takes drugs... it's expected.
COSman wrote:
Whatsthebigdeal wrote:
...I am far more bothered by the circle of athletes that are so quick to point fingers unjustly, the backbiting and hypocrisy. Jenny Simpson makes no mention of her possible connection to Dr. Brown, but she casts doubt on all athletes affiliated with NOP. Kara Goucher, a former NOP athlete, was involved closely with Salazar, yet speaks makes very vague and general accusations about Salazar's dealings and seems to point fingers at everyone without naming anyone except for Salazar's "impenetrable inner circle."
...
It's because 2-3rd tier sports like running and cycling enjoy a mass, participation appeal unlike pro sports like football, baseball, etc. Since fans personally participate in running and cycling, they have a personal stake in these sports and are emotionally invested in a way that is a departure from a spectator-based sport like football where they just want to be entertained. A local 5k runner takes it personally when an elite runner gets popped. Nobody cares if a pro linebacker takes drugs... it's expected.
and by extension, other elite runners (who have a real connection to the local 5k runner due to the nature of mass participation) feel empowered to pile on due to some latent jealously or a feeling of disenfranchisement, evidence or no evidence. Social media doesn't help this.
All of this uproar over the Salazar witch hunt really makes me feel like Lance Armstrong was treated unfairly, too. I mean, what was he guilty of, really? Having cancer and wanting to win?
Idiot NOP Lover wrote:
All of this uproar over the Salazar witch hunt really makes me feel like Lance Armstrong was treated unfairly, too. I mean, what was he guilty of, really? Having cancer and wanting to win?
Being an American at a time of Travis Tygart at the helm of USADA... The End.
Idiot NOP Lover wrote:
All of this uproar over the Salazar witch hunt really makes me feel like Lance Armstrong was treated unfairly, too. I mean, what was he guilty of, really? Having cancer and wanting to win?
No - wanting to win and doping so he could do it. And why would Alberto look to dope his athletes - he wasn't doing it for himself - unless he was motivated by the same reason?
Armstronglivs wrote:
Idiot NOP Lover wrote:
All of this uproar over the Salazar witch hunt really makes me feel like Lance Armstrong was treated unfairly, too. I mean, what was he guilty of, really? Having cancer and wanting to win?
No - wanting to win and doping so he could do it. And why would Alberto look to dope his athletes - he wasn't doing it for himself - unless he was motivated by the same reason?
Salazar has major psychological problems. He cheats in order to be successful in the eyes of others to raise is low self esteem. He has a desperate and pathetic need for attention. He is a sociopath.