Retire or train my ass off for low 2:20s?

I am part of a local running club that does a long run together every Saturday. Sometimes they get together for a mid-week workout, but I haven’t been impressed with the type of workouts they do. We are also different ability levels and end up separating pretty quickly. I feel like I get a better training session on my own, but it sucks doing hard workouts on your own.

I agree that a 5 minute drop is completely arbitrary. I would have better “war stories” if I ran a 2:25 compared to a 2:30, but I don’t think I care much about the time difference. I care more about knowing I reached my potential.

Only way I’ll know if I reached my potential is by running more mileage. I’m a hard worker, but I know I won’t enjoy the training. I guess I can put up with it for 6 months just to see how things turn out. If I don’t get significantly faster (5 min in marathon) then I’m definitely quitting. I’ll always love the sport, but I don’t have the desire to train my butt off knowing I can’t get faster. It is just my personality. I’ll be happy knowing I have everything I had during my prime years.

I really can't tell if you are a troll. No matter what your talent level is, if you can't get your head straight you aren't dropping much time.

It sounds like you don’t like running very much. It’s ok, do something else.

You obviously are looking for validation as to why you intend to (and will) quit.

So just quit. Do something else.

I would go for it. Put in the hard training for 1-2 years and see what happens. You'll always wonder "what if" if you never give it a try.

OP, do your next race then take a break from running. After a week or two I bet you will be back out there everyday. Then don't race for some time and eventually you'll get the fire again, or you won't but no need to make a decision one way or the other. Who knows how you'll feel about running in a year, or 5 years, or even 10 years.

Make no mistake about it—I do not enjoy training by myself and do intend to quit once I feel like I’ve left it all out there and did enough to reach my potential. At this point the only thing I haven’t tried is higher mileage. I don’t feel guilty about wanting to quit. I know many of you are lifelong runners and I respect that. I’ve been running competitively since 7th grade and am just burned out. Many college athletes flame out after college. I’ve continued to train post-collegiately and know I have no shot at touching my PRs from 5k and down. So my motivation to compete in those races has gone away. If I can’t see myself running a new PR that reaches a new significant milestone, then my motivation drops. I’m also just a social person and would rather do physical activities in a team atmosphere.

I appreciate all the feedback I’ve received on this thread. Your comments have helped me reflect. My plan is to complete my next race, then dedicate myself the next 6 months to higher mileage (average 80 per week). If I don’t improve, then I will pursue other hobbies/interests. Staying active will always be a part of my routine.

Thanks again for the feedback.

Just walk off .. what an idiot you are..coming on here ...blah blah ... lol. Asking for advice about your personal desires on LR .. lol You stupid weak cvnt

Lol. My intention was to see if anyone else has wrestled with these feelings before. I thought it would help me think through what I should do. Have a great day!

that’s an easy one.

if you DO think about it, you should just DO it.

so go for it. you know well enough you have to do it, just needed a little nudging. that’s ok, everyone does sometimes.

Right now with 1:11:10 best half you will probably run 2: 27:20 - 2:30:00

with the kind of 60 miles you told. With me as coach , based on your 15:25 and 1:11:10 and age 29 you will probably reach your dream to run the Olympic trials within a couple of years. And you can stay at 55-60 mpw and don`t have to work your ass off )) Welcome to world class coaching! :)

-COACH J.S -

Givetallugot wrote:

Lol. My intention was to see if anyone else has wrestled with these feelings before.

Yes, absolutely, I think nearly everyone who doesn't get pushed out of our sport by injury wrestles with this at some point.

So, what's the question? If you are currently in 2:30 shape off of 60mpw should you expect to break 2:25 with higher mileage? I would take that bet. Ramp up to 80 in your next marathon cycle and see what happens. If that goes well, you'd still have room to move up to 100 for the next one if you take to the higher mileage. Honestly, unless you hate training, adding 2 hours/week isn't that big a deal in terms of your commitment to the sport. Look at the training of swimmers, cyclists and triathletes. They easily spend three times the time training that marathoners do running. The big question is whether your body can handle it. If you are interesting in finding that out, there's nothing to do but try it.

Givetallugot wrote:

Lol. My intention was to see if anyone else has wrestled with these feelings before. I thought it would help me think through what I should do. Have a great day!

Almost everyone who has aspirations of achieving success as a serious runner has to wrestle with whether or not the effort to improve more is worth it.

Once you reach a certain level (which you are already at) diminishing returns for the additional time/energy/commitment come into play.

The effort can involve more than additional mileage. Changes in diet, lifestyle, occupation, where you live, adding cross training/additional activities, etc. should all be considered.

Only you can decide if its worth it.

You should enjoy the process and the changes. Seems like you have already decided you will not enjoy the changes so it is likely not going to be worth it for you.

I was once about where you were, After increasing my mileage and making many additional changes, I improved some but I never broke 2:30. But I enjoyed the extra effort and lifestyle changes so I continued life at that level for many years.

It's always worth it to bet on yourself and see what you can accomplish. That said, the bump from 60 to 80-100 miles a week probably won't pan out the way you think it will -- it's not going to be a sustainable jump and you'll find yourself beat down from the bump in volume before you get to the starting line. Seriously, people think of adding mileage as a get-rich-quick scheme, when in reality it's not a sustainable jump. What you actually want to do is train efficiently -- do everything you know you need to do in terms of ancillary work, and pick a training plan that you know you can sustain and provides some new stimuli for you. Maybe types of workouts you haven't done consistently before. Maybe consider a coach.

I would bump it up to 65-70 max, and let that long run be no longer than 18 miles. You can accomplish a lot in a 65-70 mile week. I would also consider adding a seventh day of training that you keep as a recovery day, giving yourself the option to crosstrain, run, or DNR.

Now that I’ve committed to increasing my mileage, can I get some feedback on how to structure my build up? I’ve never gone over 60 miles a week while doing workouts at the same time.

My plan was to do 2 workouts a week, with one of the workouts being during the long run. I like doing this because otherwise I’m doing 3 workouts a week if you count the long run.

Workout wise, I like 6 mile tempos/threshold runs at half marathon pace. I do most of my workouts on the dreadmill, which I know is easier than running outside. So if my half pace is about 5:25-5:30, I run at 5:15 pace on the treadmill. I also like doing 4x1 mile repeats with 4 min recovery on the dreadmill at v02 max/5k pace, so about 5:00. I know a 5:00 on the treadmill is probably more like a 5:10-5:15 effort, but the treadmill won’t let me run any faster than 12mph.

On some of my long runs I’ll do a 3x3 mile tempo with a 1/2 or 1 mile jog recovery.

Are these workouts appropriate? These workouts are not easy, so I feel like I have to take my recovery days easy. Is it okay for me to plod around at 7:30 pace or slightly slower to get in the additional mileage?

Um, you are too young to retire. So, would not quit that day job anytime soon. You can't retire from running because you don't make any money at it, it is a past time for you.

Givetallugot wrote:

I’m 29. Training only 60 miles a week off 6 days. Long run consistently at 20. Times this year have been 15:25 5k and 1:11:10 solo half. My workouts have been 6-7 mile tempos at half marathon pace and 4x1 mile treadmill repeats at 5:00 with 4 min rest.

I think I’m in 2:30 full marathon shape. I’ll find out soon. I realize my mileage is very low compared to many who run similar times. I know I’ll never qualify for the Olympic Trials.

How realistic is it for me to run sub 2:25?

I'm going to change my answer from YOLO to the a more detailed analysis:

1) Your 5k and HM times off 60mpw suggest 2:30 potential, but in reality the most likely outcome if you were to run one now would be 2:30 pace through 18-20, followed by the typical crater of an undertrained marathoner, resulting in 2:35ish or worse (possibly even dnf). IF you were already training 80-100mpw and had those other PR's, 2:30 or slightly under would be much more likely. It follows then if you start training 80-100 now and your HM does not improve correspondingly, then you're probably still looking at 2:27-2:30ish. If your HM improves below 1:10 with the extra volume, 2:25 starts looking more realistic. The old-school yardstick of HM time * 2 + 5 min = marathon time isn't necessarily perfect but still holds up fairly well so long as the person does proper marathon training.

2) Your additional comments on this thread about not enjoying training alone are not a positive sign for marathon success.

3) Your comments about post-collegiate burnout may explain point #2, and separately, hit quite close to home for me and probably quite a few others on here. In my case, after a couple years of post-collegiate effort and a change of life venue (moved to CO), I took up skiing, mountain biking, and other related mountain sports before eventually returning to competitive running at age 33 (in a somewhat different arena - MUT). So I get it. But here's the catch - a break from running could be a great thing to improve your long-term outlook, however, at 29 you're at your prime in the next couple years. Big dilemma - tough sledding to train all-out if you're not totally into it, but if you take several years off and come back later you may have missed your absolute peak.

Maybe there's a way to reach/exceed your goals without working your ass off. If you haven't ever tried, add a short, easy morning run each day. This simple (albeit time-consuming) addition causes surprisingly many breakthroughs to national class. Seems to fetch greater fitness AND recovery.

mwh wrote:

Maybe there's a way to reach/exceed your goals without working your ass off. If you haven't ever tried, add a short, easy morning run each day. This simple (albeit time-consuming) addition causes surprisingly many breakthroughs to national class. Seems to fetch greater fitness AND recovery.

^^^This.

Doesn't/shouldn't be long or hard, 30min is fine. Don't even try to gauge pace - 15 out/15 back, just trot/jog/run however your body feels. When you start doubling your body/legs start turning into machinery - you no longer really have to think about each stride, the legs just start running by themselves, even when you're tired. This is exactly the extra oomph needed for the latter stages of marathons.