Is there anything worse than home ownership.

You’re making my point for me. It’s very select situations when it makes sense.

You’re a financial loser wrote:

If one is self employed the ONLY way to go is lease your car. 100% deduction on your schedule C vs only the interest if bought it with a loan or only depreciation if owned outright.

HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM wrote:

You’re making my point for me. It’s very select situations when it makes sense.

You’re a financial loser wrote:

If one is self employed the ONLY way to go is lease your car. 100% deduction on your schedule C vs only the interest if bought it with a loan or only depreciation if owned outright.

So select that it only applies to real estate agents who don’t drive very much but need to have a nice car so it looks like they’re successful when they’re actually not. OP: Run the math on buying a 3 year old Mercedes. You’ll come out ahead of leasing every single time.

Once you accept the fact that half of most weekends is spent on home projects/lawn upkeep/ DIY stuff, it gets a little easier. Just like all other pains in the ass that are part of carrying your big boy card.

Homes aren't investments. They're a place to live. A 2nd house is an investment.

Sounds like you:

1. Bought a money pit. Buy newer or set aside a budget for home improvement.

2. Need marriage counseling.

The vast majority of people in the U.S. don't have to make complex judements about what they should live in.

* Bottom 20% => dumpy apartment or dumpy rental house

* Middle 20% - 80% => average house

* Top 20% => nice house in nice neighborhood

It's complex in the hot metro areas.

In Seattle, for example,

* 0-50th percentile => Usually can rent a bedroom off Craigslist, might have to live outside city and commute 1.5 hrs each way

* 50-75th percentile => Usually qualify to rent a small, dumpy apartment, or with a "low-income" subsidy get a decent studio apartment

* 75th-90th percentile => Usually qualify to rent a newish studio or 1-bdrm apartment

* 90th-99th percentile => Comfortably rent a luxury 1-bdrm apartment, stretch to buy a starter/fixer-upper house, stretch to buy an older 2-bedroom condo or a new 1-bedroom condo

* 99th-99.5th percentile => Stretch to buy a nicer house in a nicer neighborhood

* 99.5-99.99 percentile => Comfortably live in a nicer house in a nice neighborhood, or at top of penthouse condo downtown

* 99.99-99.999th percentile => Big house with view of lake

* 99.999-99.9999th percentile => Big house on the shore of the lake

* Top 0.0001% => Employee #7 at Amazon

The reason I put "usually qualify" is because to rent a new apartment you need

* Credit score of 700 or above

* 3 rental references

* Pay in cash first and last month's rent, $1500 refundable security deposit, $500 non-refundable "move-in fee"

* Go through the tour which is really an interview in disguise and the former sorority girl leasing agent is sizing you up to see if you "fit the image" of the apartment complex and look like someone who could make the payments

The contractor working on our older house makes lots of money fixing houses built in the last ten years thanks to poor construction.

Rupp-a-Lupp wrote:

My wife wants to move into a bigger house. Nope we are paying this sucker off and moving into an apartment.

Lol. Let us know how the divorce goes.

I agree to large extent. I have about $15,000 in home repairs coming up in the next few weeks. One project after another. It will probably run above my estimate. I have to set aside time blocks for one company after another to take a look, while deciding if they are being honest with me, and also how much of it I can do myself.

One pain in the ass after another. One guy advertises he accepts all credit cards but when I got the estimate last week and tried to pay that way he hemmed and hawed saying he was trying to avoid swipe fees. Now he's sending me another estimate with a jacked up rate. The same guy won't accept an Angie's List 10% off coupon because I didn't mention it ahead of time.

No kidding I didn't mention it ahead of time...you would have jacked up the estimate at least 10%, nullifying the coupon.

I lived in Las Vegas for 24 years. I have seen con men and dishonest people often enough to anticipate all of these tactics.

In my early years in Las Vegas I lived in an apartment and was incredibly active and care free. I have to say the decline began once I was wealthy enough to buy a home in Henderson. I had no idea how much upkeep and peripheral expense was involved.

Many of my friends were smarter than I was. They bought condominiums which were essentially glorified apartments with no yard to worry about, etc. The prices soared in value, given the boom in the Las Vegas market.

I’d hate to count how much I’ve put into my house over the last 5 years. The A/C recently went out, and since it was close to 20 years old, we elected to replace it. That was 13k. Although all the appliances were less that 5 years old when we bought, they were cheap and we’ve replaced them one by one as they’ve broke. $25k on solar panels (after rebates). My wife wants to do the kitchen and bathrooms, but I’ve told her the house needs painting first. Can’t get anyone to show up and give us a quote. I’ve got $30k in fencing that is on its last legs. I’d like to put in a pool. I could easily spend $200k on the place and it’s not even in bad shape.

You’re a financial loser wrote:

If one is self employed the ONLY way to go is lease your car. 100% deduction on your schedule C vs only the interest if bought it with a loan or only depreciation if owned outright.

This is wrong, if you use your vehicle 100% for business you can deduct 100% of your vehicles expenses whether you lease, buy with a loan, or pay cash. For non-leased cars this includes depreciation, interest, insurance, maintainence, etc. And if you use your vehicle only for business you might want do to lease unfriendly things with it like adding graphics and custom shelving, driving lots of miles, hauling heavy loads, etc.

If you're using your leased vehicle as your personal vehicle as well, then you have to pro-rate the deduction.

If and when inflation returns your levered investment in a real asset will do very well. Not only are your returns geared (20% down, 5x gearing ratio, home price up 50%, return on equity up 50%*5=250%), but the real value of your mortgage will fall (if fixed). Of course, the problem for you here is that when I look a the market's view of inflation through traded TIPS bonds, inflation seems to be 50-100 basis points. This expectation is already in your interest rate, home prices, and asset price in general.

You would have to hope for an acceleration in inflation. China's massive export push, massive internal investment and 45% national savings rate would have to change considerably in my mind to kick-start inflation. We have an unofficial Bretton Woods II system. The first Bretton Woods kept currencies in Europe cheap so exports and capital could be rebuilt post the destruction of World War II. This BW is from China and is exploiting the massive capacity post Mao.

tlm1959 wrote:

If and when inflation returns your levered investment in a real asset will do very well. Not only are your returns geared (20% down, 5x gearing ratio, home price up 50%, return on equity up 50%*5=250%), but the real value of your mortgage will fall (if fixed).

Then the banking system would fail, the economy would crash

Jamin, it would be a repeat of the 1970's. Bad stock market, negative real bond returns, commodities and real assets do very well, growth stocks are slaughtered and taxes become horribly distorted as historical depreciation doesn't come near replacement cost. Yes, the 70's were a lost economic decade, but we survived. The point here is that one needs to diversify assets and that includes real assets. Some astute investors hold 5% of their portfolio in gold, certainly not due to past 20-30 years performance but as inflation insurance. Would have been nice for someone to own some in Venezuela, that is, assuming you could get it out of the country.

How do you winterize a house? (Not talking a house not lived in over winter). Check the caulking? Clean out gutters, Take battery out of garden tractor? I guess if you have an old drafty house, maybe temporary insulation?

House ownership: sense that this is mine, privacy, yard, barbecue, backyard games, No one above you, space, garage, room for big toys, room for guests and kids.

But you have to be ready for the responsibility and yes there is a loss of some freedom......not for young people.

LOL!!! Nice.

One thing worse than home ownership is renting your whole life and never building any home equity.

Instead of owning a crappy place where you need to fix things all the time you could be renting place and be at the whim of what the owner will fix.

Our cats have trashed our house. Floors need completely redone, new furniture.

What else? Got new roof last year. Front porch needs replaced. Sidewalk needs replaced. Property taxes approaching what the mortgage is.

Pain in the neck. OP is partially right. Home ownership is sucky. If you have pets, even worse. At least the cats keep the mice out.