Marathoning training - only running 3 days a week

There is no magic formula for running. You have to do what works for you. Some runners run 2:14 with 140 miles, others run 2:08 with 100 miles. It all depends on what you you want to do.

100+ miles is an optimal ideal if you have the mechanics and joints to pull it off. I was once a 110 MPW guy in my 20's and starting paying the price once I reached 35. My theory is that the heart and lungs can't tell if you are running, riding, or using a gym machine. If you can replace junk with an equivalent amount of cross training, you can reap the aerobic benefits without the punishment. (Realistically, most runners can't do 100 as their bodies will not allow it.)

I still train everyday, you need to. For my log, I approximate every 10' of riding equals 1 mile of easy running. I have no scientific rationale for that only that my HR is about 10% lower on the bike (thus more duration needed) and my weight has stayed the same. (60 MPW vs. 35 MPW + 24 "bike miles"= 59 "miles" of training) The big difference is that I feel much more snap in my legs. I try to maintain a 85-95 RPM cadence while riding to maintain leg turnover and not get monster quads - this I feel is key.

For the marathon, I plan to max out at about 60 MPW with about 30 additional "bike miles" each week. I'm intrigued by the Hanson's plan laid out in last month's RT: lots of specific quality with ample rest. Replace rest with some XT and some recreational runners could really fly due to inproved fitness and strength. I'm never going to run 2:10 so I'll experiment and see if I can match the 2:25 - 2:30 clockings of my youth.

Have you read the interview with one of the Hansons in the latest RT? It's very good.

I read that immediately after reading the RW 3x week article. So on one hand you have the Hanson bunch logging miles, hitting it hard, doing Lydiard bases work. The other article says run hard 3x week, cross train the rest of the time.

It's all very confusing.

It's not really confusing.

Whether you are running just 3 hard days a week and cross training the other days, or running 7 days a week with just 3 hard days- it is still just 3 hard days of running.

The Hanson's team is trying to win Oly medals, while the proponents of the 3 x week marathon program are just trying to get their followers to run PRs.

I think that most runners could adapt the Hanson's program with cross training. Replace the easy miles with XT work but keep the hard stuff in the program. Quality running prepares you for racing not impressive log totals packed with slow runs.

IMHO - I think most marathoners rely too heavily on the long slow run. It has its place during base building but most runners would be better served with MP runs at 12-16 miles down the stretch. It's better race simulation and pacing work. Doing slow 20-23 milers really does nothing for a performance focused runner during the final 4-6 weeks to improve fitness.

Always keep in mind that RW caters more to the runner who just wants to finish rather than those looking to hit a benchmark or qualify for Boston or the Trials. The 3X plan has some merit but a runner needs to tailor any plan to fit their needs / goals / body demands. Personally, I'd add a fourth day and make it a quality session.

Bigfoot wrote:

The Hanson's team is trying to win Oly medals, while the proponents of the 3 x week marathon program are just trying ... to run PRs.

Nice way to put it into perspective. Thank you.

Everyone has different goals.

2 runners that are legends who supposedly only ran 3 days a week, kip keino according to the book by noakes on monday and wednesday keino ran 10k follwed by 4-8x400 with a 400 recovery in 55-58 and on friday he ran 10k followed by 4x800 in 153-156 with a 400 recovery, he swam or played tennis or basketball on the other days and did no running during the 6 month rainy season, keino ran the 1500, steeple 5 and 10k in the 68 and 72 olympics, 3 events in each olympics and won the olympic steeple the first time he ran the steeple. had best's of 334 for 1500 at high altitude, 823 steeple at altitude, 1324 for 5k and 2806 for 10k, he said he never ran over 30 miles a week.

also miruts yifter supposedly ran only 3x a week usually monday and wednesday 20k followed by 20x200 in 23-25 on grass and on friday he ran usually 30k with a longest ever training run of 50k. i dont think keino or yifter ever ran a marathon, although yifter said he wanted to run one.

Someone from my work approached me about this 3 a week marathon program. He's in his mid 40's & is aiming for a 4 hr marathon. Has a 10k best around 50 minutes.

I told him to scrap the speed stuff & make that run half the distance of his long run. So he has a tempo, long run & medium run each week.

Anyone else agree?

If you can run a pr on 3 days a week, then you have never really trained. This statement is true at any level.

Cross-Training is a wonderful activity that should be used when recovering from an injury. It should NEVER be used for conditioning for a marathon.

The article and the website for FIRST differ slightly. I looked at the website and for one of the off days it says it will allow for an easy run.

I will be running my first marathon in October. I have been building mileage since March (I was only a 3 miler) under a schedule found at The Art of Marathon Training. By the time 18 weeks out to the marathon came around I was burnt out and bored. I switched to the FIRST training for my last 16 weeks. I am very nervous with this being my first marathon to try a program that is considered 'risky' by some. But it really keeps me interested in training. I am doing the three days of running and every other week I throw in an additional 6 miles. I cross train by lifting and biking. Lets hope this works and I can make my goal for my first marathon...to FINISH!!

Keino himself has refuted this idea. Read Sandrock's running with the Legends. In it both Kenio and his son reject and even seem angered by the notion Kenio "did it on talent" and only ran a few days a week. In Sandrock's book, Keino's training leading up to the Olympic's is outlined as no running on sundays, an 8 mile run on saturday's, and two runs in the morning monday-friday of 45 minutes and an hour, along with relatively light intervals. Wading through this thread has been very disappointing. All this "no need for mileage, 3 days a week intervals is all you need" stuff has been tried before, notably by many high school coaches in the late 80's and early 90's. Frankly, it just doesnt work. Way, way, way, way too many people on this thread stating "I think" and blah blah without any scientific evidence, and mainly anecdotes of a couple of outliers who happened to run well of extremel low volume. However, for every guy who ran well off low volume, there are 10 more who ran way faster on high volume.

So are you saying it won't work for anyone, or just those looking to really compete. I think it may be a great plan for those who are just trying to train for their first marathon. But for those who are real competitiors I can see where it may not be enough mileage.

Only for those who are really looking to "compete" at whatever level. Basically, running 3 days a week, at some point, isnt your best option for improvement.

nor are they mutually dependent

you're right, just running 3 days a week isn't enough.

there has to be more work done - the question is whether the other days have to be running. FIRST and my experience show that they don't.

i don't think anyone would claim that only exercising 3 days a week will get you very far.

4 hours seems easy for many of us, but if he needs any leg speed (as odd as that may soud when talking about a 4-hour marathoner) he might benefit from some fast work

but most folks would benefit more from quality tempo work than speed work

FIRST has you cross training the other days, not just doing nothing. You can't expect to gain by only being active 3 days, it is the cross training that helps.

Actually for a 4 hour marathoner, a lot of walking would be a good aerobic compliment to 3 per week runs.