Tuohy just ran 9:53 3200, saving herself for Penn Relays

northleaster wrote:

another perspective wrote:

... running too fast too young is bad... running too slow too young is bad... training too hard is bad... not training enough is bad. How can you win???

Probably by not being from NY.

Has any HS girl star from NY outside of Molly Huddle or Cheri Kennah ever lived up to their potential beyond HS?

Aisling Cuffe did run 15:11...not to mention she's not quite on Tuohy's level, but Jess Lawson has run 4:16, 9:09, and 15:50 so far this year for Stanford (her high school PRs were 4:22, 9:24, and 16:38).

gahagand wrote:

northleaster wrote:

Probably by not being from NY.

Has any HS girl star from NY outside of Molly Huddle or Cheri Kennah ever lived up to their potential beyond HS?

Aisling Cuffe did run 15:11...not to mention she's not quite on Tuohy's level, but Jess Lawson has run 4:16, 9:09, and 15:50 so far this year for Stanford (her high school PRs were 4:22, 9:24, and 16:38).

Ok, there's two more, not horrible, out of how many? Pretty successful state on the HS level, not so much after.

Sabrina Southerland from cardozo won ncaa indoors last year at 800

sammy watson from rush-henrietta won ncaa outdoors last year at 800

Nicole Blood - Oregon, Sammy Watson - Texas A&M, Emily Lipari - Villanova, Phyllis Francis - Oregon, Sage Hurta - Colorado all were either All-Americans or NCAA Champs. I don't think NY is any different than any other state for having females leave the sport post high school. This issue is more one of physiology and life priorities than geography.

On Tuohy, I've always liked the way her coaches handle her. She is not chasing around the country looking for the big meets (no Arcadia, Mt.Sac etc.). She mostly focuses on relays at the big meets she goes to (Penn, NB Nationals In and Out). In smaller meets, she runs some off distances, or cruises to help her teammates set PB's. Only a handful of times in a season will she really go after an individual time.

On training - running is running, every kid in the country who is trying to improve runs some combination of easy runs, long runs, interval workouts and tempo runs/races. A lot of runners describe all interval workouts as "speed work", so no surprise she may be doing some interval workouts. It appears her Spring focus may be on the 2mile and the 5k, but they may have thrown in some shorter, quicker stuff recently knowing that she will need to run in the 4:30's at Penn (with her teammates on the relay).

So her entire body of work so far for Outdoor 2019 is a 3200m tempo run at her home relay event. Compare that to the kids who are chasing 4 minute miles, sub 9 2 miles etc. at Arcadia - I'd hardly say she is overraced, or overtrained.

webby wrote:

Does Athing Mu have to wait until college to do speedwork? Does Roisin Willis have to wait four more years? That seems like a quite an extreme stance to take. These girls all seem quite happy and healthy. I say let them run as fast as a good coach has anyone of their caliber run a workout.

Do you know what they are doing? Easy training. The coaches hold them back so much on purpose to give them room to develop.

They are fast yea, EXTREMELY fast, but it is the combination of outstanding talent and smart, training with nothing very hard in training.

Athing Mu's training has been discussed by her coach multiple times. I'll post some quotes:

""Every year he just takes my training to another level, which is what I enjoy and I believe is the right thing I should be doing," said Mu."

"Even prior to USA Indoors, Mu’s fast times this year were surprising her long-time coach Jennings. He told Rich Sands of Track & Field News, “I was thinking next year she would do this. And she’s just blossomed. And we haven’t really done a whole lot of hard stuff in training yet.” (2019)

"When she got in school, we wanted her to move to higher heights," he continued. "We really didn't do a lot of hard training when she was young. We carried her as far as we could." (2018)

Now keep in mind she has been in the club since she was 5. Now she already has 11 years of mileage and training and can definitely slowly transition to harder workouts, that will be necessary if they are trying to break 2:00 in HS. But the 2:06 she achieved mostly of talent alone. People don't understand how much talent matters in high level of running, more and more people get injured because they train extremely hard trying to run as fast as others, and this is amplified by HS coaches letting their athletes train super hard causing many injuries and months off just because some other kids are more talented and run faster.

This takes the medal for the dumbest non-satirical post on lets run. Ever. Let's read that again:

"It takes thousands of lifetime miles to develop the muscles, tendons, heart etc to be able to handle speed work WITHOUT injury risk."

From what I understand you never ran in Highschool or college. You've got a 4:53 mile. "Wait with speedwork until college." What do you know about it? Nothing. You are are seriously critiquing tuohy's training like a know-it-all, but she's a minute faster than you as a teenage girl.

Fkdkfmo wrote:

LateRunnerPhill is a 16:50, 4:53 guy who has no idea what he's t wrote:

This takes the medal for the dumbest non-satirical post on lets run. Ever. Let's read that again:

"It takes thousands of lifetime miles to develop the muscles, tendons, heart etc to be able to handle speed work WITHOUT injury risk."

From what I understand you never ran in Highschool or college. You've got a 4:53 mile. "Wait with speedwork until college." What do you know about it? Nothing. You are are seriously critiquing tuohy's training like a know-it-all, but she's a minute faster than you as a teenage girl.

I agree, load of nonsense. In the UK, we do a lot less mileage and more speedwork. My group when younger took this to an extreme. 2 sessions a week and no other running. This lead to sub 2 800m for several runners aged 15-18. No one ever got injured. Speedwork makes you strong.

Ghjvgu wrote:

I agree, load of nonsense. In the UK, we do a lot less mileage and more speedwork. My group when younger took this to an extreme. 2 sessions a week and no other running. This lead to sub 2 800m for several runners aged 15-18. No one ever got injured. Speedwork makes you strong.

The 1990s called. They want their training philosophy and years of no one going under 9 for the 3200 back.

Tuohy 436 on tbe anchor but started way back so 6th or so. FM wins in 1145.

Fasttuohy wrote:

Tuohy 436 on tbe anchor but started way back so 6th or so. FM wins in 1145.

Their 800 girl must have split over 2:30

NR splits something like 3:43, 58, 2:34, 4:37. They did not run the same 800 runner as indoors, not did she run last week at their relays so may be hurt. Claire Walters ran great - 4:43 on their anchor to win for FM. Chmiel struggled to 4:50.

While some of the times these days are impressive, kids often seem pampered compared to the old days. Talk to serious middle or long distance circa 1965-1970 and you will find that 80 mile weeks were not atypical. Ryan would train 90 to 100 mpw in the off season and 3 sets of 8 440s--probably at around 2 mile pace. Lingdren did even more. I guess the philosophy was cash in your chips now since tomorrow may or may not come. I understand the burnout factor but I can't help but laugh when people think that 6x 400 m is somehow excessive. I believe that even the 800 m is to a large extent a strength even and Joaquim Cruz would say that 10 mile tempo runs which for him were around 5:30 pace were a key to his success. I guarantee that the Kenyans and Ethiopians aren't moping around worried about over-training which is much of the reason they are largely superior to us.

FastTuohy wrote:

NR splits something like 3:43, 58, 2:34, 4:37. They did not run the same 800 runner as indoors, not did she run last week at their relays so may be hurt. Claire Walters ran great - 4:43 on their anchor to win for FM. Chmiel struggled to 4:50.

Lot of people ran slow splits like Ewert and Chmiel. Seems surprising. All props to Tuohy... No way she was gonna win being down 130 meters like that. She went for it anyway though.

Ouchh wrote:

FastTuohy wrote:

NR splits something like 3:43, 58, 2:34, 4:37. They did not run the same 800 runner as indoors, not did she run last week at their relays so may be hurt. Claire Walters ran great - 4:43 on their anchor to win for FM. Chmiel struggled to 4:50.

Lot of people ran slow splits like Ewert and Chmiel. Seems surprising. All props to Tuohy... No way she was gonna win being down 130 meters like that. She went for it anyway though.

Drew Hunter closed a 130m gap to Salisbury in 2016.

But yea, great performance by Tuohy. I miss the times where she was running with Alexandra Harris on the same team, she even pushed her when Tuohy was still new to the scene and made her jealous cos their coach allowed Alex to run more mileage than Katy, haha.

Does anyone have the splits for the top teams in the race? Can’t find them on penn’s website but am very curious

LateRunnerPhil wrote:

Ouchh wrote:

Lot of people ran slow splits like Ewert and Chmiel. Seems surprising. All props to Tuohy... No way she was gonna win being down 130 meters like that. She went for it anyway though.

Drew Hunter closed a 130m gap to Salisbury in 2016.

But yea, great performance by Tuohy. I miss the times where she was running with Alexandra Harris on the same team, she even pushed her when Tuohy was still new to the scene and made her jealous cos their coach allowed Alex to run more mileage than Katy, haha.

It was 9 seconds. The gap today was 21 seconds. Not even close to the same situation.