Tuohy just ran 9:53 3200, saving herself for Penn Relays

I just hope she can repeat what Drew Hunter did at Penn relays 2016 and win it for her team with an amazing mile. Good to hear that she saved herself for Penn relays and wants to contribute as much as possible to her team.

Apparently post season she is going to run the 5000m at the Adrian Martinez Classic and try to get the world or olympic standard.

In an interview after that race she said she was happy with the time because they had been doing a lot of speed work to get ready for the Penn Relays. Something like "I am going to have to run fast if we are going to win there". If all of the teams are on their game this could be fast - 11:40 might get 2nd, or 3rd.

At least she isn't saving herself for Zurich.

FastTuohy wrote:

In an interview after that race she said she was happy with the time because they had been doing a lot of speed work to get ready for the Penn Relays. Something like "I am going to have to run fast if we are going to win there". If all of the teams are on their game this could be fast - 11:40 might get 2nd, or 3rd.

I worry about that kid.

Doing a lot of speed to get ready for Penn, Really? How long can she keep that up, does not make sense in the big picture.

not so fast.... wrote:

I worry about that kid.

Doing a lot of speed to get ready for Penn, Really? How long can she keep that up, does not make sense in the big picture.

You have no idea what "speed" or "a lot" means. You have no idea what her overall training outline looks like. Incidentally, young runners should absolutely be doing lots of speed work. That's not inconsistent with strength-based training, nor with adequate recovery, nor with long-term, sustainable progression.

These narratives about people screwing up fragile female athletes have been the norm since the days of little Mary Decker, usually based on no more than a couple of words in an interview and no real insight to the athlete's life or training. Nobody talks this way about male athletes.

800 dude wrote:

not so fast.... wrote:

I worry about that kid.

Doing a lot of speed to get ready for Penn, Really? How long can she keep that up, does not make sense in the big picture.

You have no idea what "speed" or "a lot" means. You have no idea what her overall training outline looks like. Incidentally, young runners should absolutely be doing lots of speed work. That's not inconsistent with strength-based training, nor with adequate recovery, nor with long-term, sustainable progression.

These narratives about people screwing up fragile female athletes have been the norm since the days of little Mary Decker, usually based on no more than a couple of words in an interview and no real insight to the athlete's life or training. Nobody talks this way about male athletes.

No, young runners should not be doing LOT'S of speed work, they should do some, but not LOT'S. Not with the amount of racing they do and for the length of each season they run. I disagree with you 100%.

The interview https://www.lohud.com/videos/sports/high-school/track/2019/04/19/katelyn-tuohys-3-200-win-north-rockland-red-raider-relays-track-and-field/3515061002/

A high school girl cruisin' a chill 9:53, no big deal.

haha just kidding, Tuohy is a machine

Running too many miles is bad. Running too many speed workouts is bad. Sounds like running is bad.

FastTuohy wrote:

Running too many miles is bad. Running too many speed workouts is bad. Sounds like running is bad.

... running too fast too young is bad... running too slow too young is bad... training too hard is bad... not training enough is bad. How can you win???

another perspective wrote:

FastTuohy wrote:

Running too many miles is bad. Running too many speed workouts is bad. Sounds like running is bad.

... running too fast too young is bad... running too slow too young is bad... training too hard is bad... not training enough is bad. How can you win???

Probably by not being from NY.

Has any HS girl star from NY outside of Molly Huddle or Cheri Kennah ever lived up to their potential beyond HS?

not so fast... wrote:

800 dude wrote:

You have no idea what "speed" or "a lot" means. You have no idea what her overall training outline looks like. Incidentally, young runners should absolutely be doing lots of speed work. That's not inconsistent with strength-based training, nor with adequate recovery, nor with long-term, sustainable progression.

These narratives about people screwing up fragile female athletes have been the norm since the days of little Mary Decker, usually based on no more than a couple of words in an interview and no real insight to the athlete's life or training. Nobody talks this way about male athletes.

No, young runners should not be doing LOT'S of speed work, they should do some, but not LOT'S. Not with the amount of racing they do and for the length of each season they run. I disagree with you 100%.

This is so true. Grant Fisher's coach repeatedly said he did no speedwork at all in HS, because he wasn't ready for it. One time he scheduled a session of 4x400m at 800m pace (55-56) instead of the usual mile pace (60) that he is doing more often. He told him to stop after just 2 reps, because he was killing himself.

It takes thousands of lifetime miles to develop the muscles, tendons, heart etc to be able to handle speed work WITHOUT injury risk. Any idiot coach could let a HS phenom with lots of natural talent run fast in workouts, but too often they end up injured and miss an entire season because of it. Not worth it.

Wait with speedwork until college.

We don't have any insight into Katy's current training tho, so maybe what she is referring to as speedwork IS just mile-paced reps, or shorter faster stuff like 60s sprints or 200s at 800m pace, which would be perfectly fine even for a HS athlete.

I'm confused, what is bad and what is good? 200s at 800m pace are good, 400s at 800m pace are bad, 60s sprints are good, anything mile-paced is good, speedwork is bad. You MIGHT want to better define your version of "speedwork."

northleaster wrote:

another perspective wrote:

... running too fast too young is bad... running too slow too young is bad... training too hard is bad... not training enough is bad. How can you win???

Probably by not being from NY.

Has any HS girl star from NY outside of Molly Huddle or Cheri Kennah ever lived up to their potential beyond HS?

Molly was solid in HS but not top shelf. There were a few other girls in front of her

Not quite a star wrote:

northleaster wrote:

Probably by not being from NY.

Has any HS girl star from NY outside of Molly Huddle or Cheri Kennah ever lived up to their potential beyond HS?

Molly was solid in HS but not top shelf. There were a few other girls in front of her

Molly ran 10:02 for 2 mile in HS.

But, you are making my point, the top NY girls are generally tapped out in HS. How did the few girls who were ahead of her do in college?

Not quite a star wrote:

northleaster wrote:

Probably by not being from NY.

Has any HS girl star from NY outside of Molly Huddle or Cheri Kennah ever lived up to their potential beyond HS?

Molly was solid in HS but not top shelf. There were a few other girls in front of her

LOL. Seriously? Molly Huddle was 4th place at Footlocker Nationals as a senior which is the only year of high school that she ran cross country. She was 2nd at FLNE. Those were the only XC races she lost in high school. She ran 4:27 and 9:21 her senior year of track. At nationals in track she was 2nd in the mile and 1st in the 2 mile. She was most certainly top shelf. SMH.

molly barely ran indoor in hs. She didn't have a crazy coach, didn't lift all the time. Played basketball. Did she even run footlocker as an underclassman.

I think anyone would be able to tell the difference in focus on HS between her and tuohy. But yes, molly ran very fast with much less all in.

Totally Evil Private Coach wrote:

I'm confused, what is bad and what is good? 200s at 800m pace are good, 400s at 800m pace are bad, 60s sprints are good, anything mile-paced is good, speedwork is bad. You MIGHT want to better define your version of "speedwork."

That's because "speed work" is a very confusing term. Most people refer to it anything that is faster than the maximum aerobic pace (the pace at VO2MAX) an athlete can have, which includes:

Anaerobic Endurance (~mile speed)

Anaerobic Power (~800m speed, lower end)

Speed Endurance (slightly faster than 800m speed)

Speed (400m and faster)

You could have even more variety, for example divide Speed into all-out sprinting and 400m paced 100s.

So whether speedwork is good or bad for Katy largely depends on the volume, intensity and frequency it was done in her build-up to the Penn relays. Without knowing her exact training, we can't assume it was good or bad for her long-term development. I always say a little speed work goes a long way, I hope her coaches didn't overcook her with too much hard speed sessions..