Road Racing and Training Thread, Week Ending 3/17/2019

I'll post the race recap tomorrow

Sorry to hear that, man, that's gotta be frustrating.

In the big picture, it seems like you've been making some progress with your training in terms of volume and consistency. And it also seems like you've been seeing some promising signs in workouts of late. But sometimes it can take a while for that to translate to racing. And sometimes, in fact, the early stages of adapting to a step up in training can leave you kind of zapped when you try to race (that's been my experience, anyway - sums up a lot of my college career, actually). So, give yourself time to adapt and get that leg healthy, and you may start to feel the benefit of the work you've been doing a little more.

JamesTheAmateur wrote:

I'll post the race recap tomorrow

My advice would be. Cut back on the workouts. Work up the volume... And fall back in love with running. For the fun aspects and not just the racing and or time goals.

runrincerepeat wrote:

JamesTheAmateur wrote:

I'll post the race recap tomorrow

My advice would be. Cut back on the workouts. Work up the volume... And fall back in love with running. For the fun aspects and not just the racing and or time goals.

+1

Still Improving wrote:

I know that things have moved on to other topics, but I now have some time to chime in with my thoughts and experiences with doing the 'I' pace workouts. ... It takes me an extended time to recover from one of these workouts. I guess I am more of a slow twitch runner than a fast twitch. Being an older masters runner is probably a factor too. As an example I did a 5x1k this past Wednesday. Today I moved my LR/workout to tomorrow due to the windy weather. I did go for an easy run today and once I got started I realized that I still need more recovery time from that 5x1k and that if I would have tried that workout today it probably would have been compromised and a disappointment.

Still

Very "I"nteresting.

For me, the "T" workouts are the ones that seem to require more recovery. It's been really noticeable as the cycle winds down. I seem to have no fatigue or residual soreness after the I/R style workouts whereas I'm stiff and creaky after one of those longer T sessions.

One of my hypotheses is in line with yours... I am a fast-twitch guy so maybe that plays a role... I suspect I also have better form the faster I run. Like when I do those 200s, I feel like I'm floating, so maybe less wear and tear on the muscles and joints.

The other is the possibility of working too hard on the "T" and not hard enough on the "I"

But as everyone keeps pointing out, if you're out there running fast, it's helping. What it's helping and how much is sometimes less obvious!

GFMAH - It's super frustrating. But yeah, all my workouts as of late seem to indicate that I'm in vastly better shape than this. Maybe I'm getting sick or something since my easy 4 yesterday was unusually hard as well.

RRR - I actually do love running. I like running long and different paces. I'm not a fan of solely easy running, but we all have a pace we hate. I'm just not liking the lack of results from it. Sure, I like the activity itself. But I also want to be fast. It's a blend.

JamesTheAmateur wrote:

Thanks for the good luck, but it was misplaced.

I ran 27:22.5 for the 4 miler. 21:13.5 at the 5k split. Super flat course.

The effort was there, but the time wasn't. Couldn't find a good rhythm, my leg still isn't 100% even when taking it easy this week, and I didn't have any real pop in my legs. Ran 6:28.1, 6:45.7, 7:13.6, 6:55. Heart rate average was 188 (94%) with a max of 203. I thought my max was 200 so I'm not sure what's with the 203.

Getting real tired of these sh!t results. Probably going to adjust my goal time for Oiselle down to 41 instead of sub 40

I'll give you a silver lining if you're in the mood for one...

You are a badass running 4 miles averaging 94% of HRmax. Shows how strong you are cardio-ly and mental-ly. It's just a matter of time before you're on the line with fresh legs, a revving engine, and a whole lotta pay back on yer mind.

But, yeah, chill a while. Recovery (after races...as part of a training routine) is not something to be neglected.

RRR - It is also somewhat hard because I'm too slow to join the only real running club in my area, but too focused for a general group. My easy pace is about 9 so I'm not super fast. But sort of in a no man's land focus wise so I train solo which isn't that fun. I miss having a group. And my life is so busy I can't go on any local group runs since those on either Tuesdays or Thursdays. Both days I'm out of town for class. I love the sport, but I miss not having anyone to train with or talk to in real life about it with. The missus doesn't care much for running. She listens to me prattle on about it, but it's super one sided since she doesn't know anything about it

I've found a similar thing. My heart rate can easily climb super high on "T" workouts, either straight or cruise intervals, if I'm not paying attention. But I don't suffer that same problem on "I" workouts, more muscle fatigue in the ol' glutes. But I've always suspected I'm more one the FT side of things. I'll probably experiment with speeding up "I" workouts and slowing down "T" workouts next cycle to see if I'm getting the right stimuli

I am. I let myself piss and moan from the time I finish the race to the time I'm done with my cool down. I'll feel sad/mad/whatever during that 30 - 35 minute block. But once I'm done, I let it go because otherwise I'll dwell all day. On the other hand, I ride out good results all day.

And thanks! I wanted to quit real bad around the 2 mile mark. But I knew I would be even more disappointed if I quit early than running a poor (to me) time. It definitely didn't feel good, but I was impressed I held that for so long. I had no kick left at the end, but after grinding that out I wasn't too bothered.

GT - DAMN MAN! Congrats, that's a heckuva leap. Big things to come for you. BEAST MODE ALL DAY.

JTA - I'd second (or third) the advice to increase the mileage and scale back the workouts. You're making incremental progress, just not the big jump yet. I understand the frustration.

Stone - You've got some wheels! Best 5k in 23 years, that's quite the accomplishment.

Darkwave - I agree with the consensus that you're a gritty runner. Love the effort and that's a heckuva time too, even if you could have done better.

JQ -Talk about a leap! My goodness, congrats on a MASSIVE PR. Random question. Do you also work from home? Just wondering how you fit in all those doubles. My schedule doesn't provide the luxury of those doubles unless I were to give up my precious sleep, which isn't something I'm to do, and would likely lead to regression.

BornAnAxolotl - That's a huge freaking PR too. Congrats! The 17 seconds will come.

On the running by feel vs running by GPS:

I'd say that for someone starting out it is very easy to go out too hard (of course that's nothing new). Personally in my half last Sunday, I did exactly that and found it reassuring that I was still on/under pace at mile 10. When I then thought about how fast I was running, how it felt, and whether I could manage those last miles as well, I was sure that it would be fine despite feeling like I was really pushing it already.

Similarly during normal runs, I check my watch sometimes to make sure that I am not running too fast. Yes, Daniel's would recommend 7:15 to 7:35 for easy runs and that may feel easy in the moment, but going for ~8:00 is sometimes easier when wearing a watch as a reminder to take it slow.

So while I ultimately would agree that running by feel/effort is better, I think it takes some time to get there and GPS is not a terrible aid.

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I'll post an update on the past week in the next thread but it has been going well. Going for 80 this week up from 60 last week and 73 before and mostly did shorter doubles, two workouts, and all easy runs were on average around 7:40 or so probably. The discussion on Daniel's reminds me that I really dislike longer tempo efforts, specifically again because I fear that I would go out too fast and then don't get the right pace for the last miles because of overexertion in the beginning. I much prefer any kind of intervals and if possible at a high volume. Planning to end the week with some 1k VO2 max work but I'll see how I am feeling tomorrow.

RunGuy Midwest wrote:

JQ -Talk about a leap! My goodness, congrats on a MASSIVE PR. Random question. Do you also work from home? Just wondering how you fit in all those doubles. My schedule doesn't provide the luxury of those doubles unless I were to give up my precious sleep, which isn't something I'm to do, and would likely lead to regression.

Hey RunGuy,

Many thanks!! And nope, I work at the office! Though I have a lot of flexibility so I often do some work outside of work hours at home, (to help accommodate my shorter double at work on the treadmill). Yeah it's definitely tough balancing sleep, I'm often sneaking in naps on the daily whenever I can, and in general just try to sleep earlier if possible.