I'm not sure how he went from a pedo who was vilified by society into some kind of divine figure. He was the butt of every joke. What happened? And how did it happen so quickly?
I'm not sure how he went from a pedo who was vilified by society into some kind of divine figure. He was the butt of every joke. What happened? And how did it happen so quickly?
John Utah wrote:
I'm not sure how he went from a pedo who was vilified by society into some kind of divine figure. He was the butt of every joke. What happened? And how did it happen so quickly?
That said, MJ was one of the best entertainers to ever live. No doubt about it.
Not sure why so many "great" people are so f-ed up.
Precious Roy wrote:
MJ was heterosexual. His body guards, managers and handlers all have said that he was attracted to women. He was stalked by a fan who claimed that MJ fathered her child. The fan eventually sent MJ a gun with a date when MJ should kill himself. That issue really got to MJ and became the subject of Billie Jean. I think that really got to him and made it very difficult for him to pursue a relationship with women until his stardom had faded. I think that is why he adopted an asexual persona and became interested in platonic relationships with kids. Of course the sad irony is that he was again targeted and had to pay off his accusers.
He may have crossed the line between platonic affection for kids and something vaguely sexual. But he was not a pedophile. I knew an FBI agent who worked exclusively on prosecuting purveyors of child pornography for about a decade. He said that there is really no such thing as someone who just dabbles in pedophilia. It really is an all in sickness that is very sexually explicit.
I also think MJs pursuit of fame broke him. Just compare Off the Wall with Thriller. Off the Wall was pure MJ genius. Just watch any of the videos or live performances from back then. He was really happy and there was a lot of joy in his performances. But he felt that he was slighted in terms of recognition and album because he was black. He then worked with Quincy Jones to make Thriller a break from his R&B/disco/funk roots. Then you have songs like Beat it with guitar solos. And MJ really starts going in for plastic surgery to change his appearance and make himself look less black. His performances from the Thriller album are all very aggressive and almost angry. In a way, I think he recognized that he had to change himself to achieve the success he wanted and resented himself for doing it.
He paid one kid's family $20 million. No one does that if they are innocent. Let's face it ... he was a serial Pedophile. And a homosexual pedophile at that!
John Utah wrote:
John Utah wrote:
I'm not sure how he went from a pedo who was vilified by society into some kind of divine figure. He was the butt of every joke. What happened? And how did it happen so quickly?
That said, MJ was one of the best entertainers to ever live. No doubt about it.
Michael still had huge legions of die-hard cultist fans, even when he was the butt of jokes.
The resurgence of Michael's popularity when he died would have been somewhat similar if he had lived. He was about to embark on a world tour, and it would have been the most coveted tour ticket in the history of music, pretty much.
And he would have been the butt of jokes the whole time.
But when a person dies, they are not made the butt of jokes as much. And after he died, his die hard cult fans would gang up and attack anybody who made an online pedo joke about Wacko Jacko.
Also, the black community that rightly distanced themselves from Michael in his later years, the all rallied around him the minute he died, in a huge way. I was living in Downtown Brooklyn, a black cultural headquarters of sorts, and right next to the subway station where he filmed "Bad."
Almost EVERY black person downtown was singing Michael's praises, wearing MJ shirts, playing MJ music, and posting MJ signs.
With good reason, I suppose. As you say, he was one of the best performers of all time, maybe the best.
Interestingly, the black community didn't like OJ Simpson because he said "I'm not black, I'm OJ". But as soon as OJ was arrested for killing his w__te wife, he gained instant support from the black community, and polls at the time showed that some 75-80% of them believed he was innocent.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sd4SJVsTulcHis performance at Motown in 1983 was one of his best ever:
Fatty R. Belt Buckle wrote:
He paid one kid's family $20 million. No one does that if they are innocent. Let's face it ... he was a serial Pedophile. And a homosexual pedophile at that!
Actually, that's exactly what people do. Make it go away. Because those kinds of charges can't really be defended against. As soon as they arise, guilty or innocent, the accused loses (and I'm not at all trying to defend predators).
On the other hand, more than of the accusers have a story that goes like this:
Child spends time with MJ, makes accusation of abuse.
DA says no evidence to win in a court of law.
Child goes back to MJ, then later makes a new accusation.
MJ settles.
What parent on earth would send their child back to the home of a man they've accused of sexually abusing their child?
Precious Roy wrote:
...
I also think MJs pursuit of fame broke him. Just compare Off the Wall with Thriller. Off the Wall was pure MJ genius. Just watch any of the videos or live performances from back then. He was really happy and there was a lot of joy in his performances. But he felt that he was slighted in terms of recognition and album because he was black. He then worked with Quincy Jones to make Thriller a break from his R&B/disco/funk roots. Then you have songs like Beat it with guitar solos. And MJ really starts going in for plastic surgery to change his appearance and make himself look less black. His performances from the Thriller album are all very aggressive and almost angry. In a way, I think he recognized that he had to change himself to achieve the success he wanted and resented himself for doing it.
I usually agree with you, but your comments here and on the other thread are completely, pardon the pun, off the wall. :)
He'd hardly have work with Quincy J if he wanted to change direction for the reasons you suggest. He'd have worked with some one from another genre.
There is basically one guitar in the entire Thriller album. It just happens to be a much better solo than Don't Stop Til You Get Enough.
Beat It is a pretty aggressive tune. But nothing else on that album is.
I do think he reached such a pinnacle with that success that he had a hard time finding where to go from there. By the time the mid-late 90's rolled around he was virtually a victim of his own success. Unfortunately artists are too often judged against their own previous successes. And he was never going to top Thriller. Ever.
Here's a review of the damning documentary about Michael Jackson that debuted tonight at Sundance:
"So, I just came from the screening and I have to say the documentary is excellent.
***SPOILERS AHEAD****
First, bear in mind that the documentary is basically the points of view of two of Michael Jackson's victims, who got some of the most special treatment, who say they experienced whirlwind romances with Michael as children, then were discarded, only to be used for defense testimony in court when Michael needed them later. It examines their adult lives and post-traumatic stress.
One is Wade Robson, whom you may know from his high-profile career choreographing for N Sync, Britney Spears, etc. The other is Jimmy Safechuck. The documentary basically interviews they and their families without challenging their claims, essentially assuming they're true. Which I'm inclined to believe they are, after this and other evidence I've read my whole life.
The film does touch on the fact that Wade Robson was suing the Michael Jackson estate after Michael's death for money and after defending Michael vigorously in court as a younger man. (I suspect the media "coming out" of Robson a couple of years ago was the impetus for this film; not the new maids' testimonies in the New York Post from last summer).
Anyway, the whole thing is harrowing, stomach-turning and sad. You sit with Robson and Safechuck, and their families, in what feels like are their first therapy sessions discussing what happened. Robson and his sister are bawling and I have to admit, I teared up during the end. Robson was recalling what it was like to confess to his family and therapist that he had been lying to everyone for years — including courts of law and the media — that Michael had never touched him sexually.
I think Robson is very brave to admit he perjured himself in court twice when Michael Jackson was alive and accused by others and that his and Macaulay Culkin's testimonies basically set Michael free to abuse some more.
Robson's and Safechuck's stories and experiences with Michael are pretty similar. Robson's mother said she noticed the same pattern keep happening with other boys once her family got dumped; she said that Michael Jackson would have a "best friendship" with a young boy for a year and then dump them for someone new. Robson and Safechuck will tell you they were like marriages or romances. For a year.
Anyway, here are some gross points that stood out:
1) Michael eventually tried anal with both boys, but stopped when he realized they disliked it.
2) Michael was arguing with Safechuck's mother for the right to take Jimmy on tour for a year and live with him alone, which she initially refused. Michael told her after much arguing: "Look. I always get what I want." Which he eventually did with the parents rooming nearby while the boy slept in Michael's rooms.
3) Both of these particular mothers say they asked their sons repeatedly if Michael had touched them sexually and that the boys always told them "No."
4) Safechuck and Robson still have fond feelings for Michael, mixed with spite. They both said they didn't feel like Michael hurt them during the molestations; that they felt married or romantically together.
5) Safechuck and Michael had a private wedding between themselves and Safechuck still has the diamond wedding ring — along with other gold and diamond rings he was bribed with.
PUT THAT IN THE ROCK N' ROLL HALL OF FAME!!!
6) Safechuck and Robson seemed more hurt at being dumped from Michael Jackson's world or demoted after one year for some, new boy.
7) Safechuck and Robson figure that all the boys Michael traveled with for a year were having sex with him like they were — including Macaulay Culkin (whom one of Michael's housekeepers witnessed being humped by Michael at a pinball machine in a tabloid story I read years ago). Culkin still denies any hanky panky between himself and Michael, just like Safechuck and Robson did when they thought Michael would be their lover and supporter forever.
8) Michael allegedly "married" these boys and promised them a life-full of career support and riches. He would indoctrinate the boys and teach them that if anyone ever found out they were having sex, the gifts would stop and they could never see each other again; that other people would never understand them. Michael allegedly trained Safechuck to dress and undress in an instant without making noise in order to fool people. So he was threatening to cut the kids off from the gravy train if they ever told anyone. After being discarded as Michael's "number one boys," Safechuck says Michael sponsored his schooling as a filmmaker and Robson says Michael's name, financial support and connections enabled him to achieve choreography career. They were still benefiting from Michael's money, or hopes of it, when they testified in court twice that Michael was not a child abuser.
9) Robson's mom was a greedy Show Parent who broke her Australian family apart to take Wade to America and revolve around Michael's world. They abandoned the family father in Australia, who suffered from bipolar disorder and eventually killed himself. Both mothers admit they failed their children. But Safechuck's mom seemed disingenuous -- like she was saying what she thinks we should hear.
I'm happy to take questions from people.
—The Sundance Fairy
'He was a pedophile': Michael Jackson documentary Leaving Neverland sickens Sundance with 'sexually explicit and devastating' proof that King of Pop was a 'monster' who 'sexually abused a lot of children'
The Michael Jackson documentary Leaving Neverland had its world premiere on Friday at the Sundance Film Festival in Park City, Utah
The four-hour documentary, which will air on HBO and Channel 4 in the UK, details Wade Robson and James Safechuck's allegations of abuse
'Michael Jackson witnesses/sex abuse victims coming off very credible. It’s so sexually explicit that counselors are in the lobby,' wrote Mara Reinstein
'MJ gave one of his young male victims jewelry in exchange for sexual acts, and even staged a mock wedding,' wrote Patrick Ryan
Robson has previously detailed Jackson masturbating while watching Robson naked on all fours and fondling his genitals
The Jackson family dd not try to stop the screening in any way, but the King of Pop's nephew did urge his Twitter followers to boycott Sundance sponsors
Oprah's going to interview them. Now they can confess like Lance.
He was an adorable child though. You just want to adopt him and give him a good home.
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