The Guardian: How the 'Natural Talent' Myth is Used as a Weapon Against Black Athletes

epo-almaz wrote:

El Keniano wrote:

Excellent article from the Guardian that works for Letsrun, too.

Totally. The difference in distance running at the international level is doping not natural talent.

Thanks for pointing that out.

Thanks for this. Confirms another part of the discussion that was touched on in a great article by the New York Times about Kip Keino from a few years back. You get the impression that the prevailing feeling on these boards is that black East Africans have usurped a part of the sport that should have been the domain of white Anglo-Saxons.

From the NYT:

He reminded me of a moment that was as revolutionary as the Smith-Carlos demonstration. It took place on the track at Estadio Olimpico Universitario in Mexico City, when 27-year-old Kip Keino of Kenya upset the heavily favored Jim Ryun to win the 1,500 meters ... Keino won by 20 meters, the widest margin of victory in that event in Olympic history ... Jim Ryun at the time was the world-record holder and the golden boy. It would be the equivalent of an African guy coming here and beating Michael Phelps ...

The prevailing wisdom was that middle- and long-distance running was a cornerstone of Anglo-Saxon athletic dominance. The sprints, so the stereotype went, required only raw natural talent, but distance races were cerebral and required grit and stamina, focus and organization. What impressed the 10-year-old Thompson as much as the victory was Keino’s show of compassion, not simply sportsmanship, toward Ryun, who was devastated by the loss.

So attributing East African success to doping is expected and predictable.

Is the point that we're not impressed when an African has an amazing race but are impressed when a white person does? Could it just possibly be because we now expect them to perform better? History has shown us, the white athletes don't stand a chance in any of the events that don't require an implement, and that's probably because you can't make any money from field events. Is it racist to think Africans are better at track and field when they have dominated every running event for last 30+ years?

If anybody thought Ryun was heavily favored at Mexico they didn't know much about running or the effects of altitude. Having been raised at altitude gave Keino a huge advantage at 7,200 feet.

wierd wrote:

disgracefull article the left always view things through the prism of race 'in 1950, the United Nations Educational, Scientific and Cultural Organization (UNESCO) issued a statement asserting that all humans belong to the same species and that “race” is not a biological reality but a myth.'

So they are saying we all have the same dna? Idiots. Disturbing idiots.

And right on queue, the reflexive dismissal of Keino’s victory. Had it happened today, the LRC would’ve branded him ‘doped to the gills’ and American journalists would’ve pointed out that he’s wearing a Rosa singlet.

El Keniano wrote:

SDSU Aztec wrote:

If anybody thought Ryun was heavily favored at Mexico they didn't know much about running or the effects of altitude. Having been raised at altitude gave Keino a huge advantage at 7,200 feet.

And right on queue, the reflexive dismissal of Keino’s victory. Had it happened today, the LRC would’ve branded him ‘doped to the gills’ and American journalists would’ve pointed out that he’s wearing a Rosa singlet.

Right because Kenyan runners a Saints and to say otherwise means you are racist.

Ezekiel bread wrote:

El Keniano wrote:

And right on queue, the reflexive dismissal of Keino’s victory. Had it happened today, the LRC would’ve branded him ‘doped to the gills’ and American journalists would’ve pointed out that he’s wearing a Rosa singlet.

Right because Kenyan runners a Saints and to say otherwise means you are racist.

No more or less saintly than American runners. Which is why singling them out is, in and of itself, racist. Are you going to tell me I’m ‘the reason why Trump won’, next?

El Keniano wrote:

Ezekiel bread wrote:

Right because Kenyan runners a Saints and to say otherwise means you are racist.

No more or less saintly than American runners. Which is why singling them out is, in and of itself, racist. Are you going to tell me I’m ‘the reason why Trump won’, next?

You're either delusional or never been to America. But unlike Kenya, American runners can't buy EPO like it's Advil.

El Keniano wrote:

epo-almaz wrote:

Totally. The difference in distance running at the international level is doping not natural talent.

Thanks for pointing that out.

Thanks for this. Confirms another part of the discussion that was touched on in a great article by the New York Times about Kip Keino from a few years back. You get the impression that the prevailing feeling on these boards is that black East Africans have usurped a part of the sport that should have been the domain of white Anglo-Saxons.

...

So attributing East African success to doping is expected and predictable.

That is why when Rupp got silver in the 10k everyone on LRC attributed it to his work ethic (this is sarcasm) ... and that is with a majority of posters from his home country. You have a nice chip on your shoulder, but the reality is that doping is rampant with the top athletes and you have so much nationalistic pride that you can't take off the rose colored glasses. It is just easier for you to dismiss it as racism. Doping is actually a large part of the reason for the success.

Please go on how it is not natural talent and it is not doping though.

These are indisputable facts:

1) Altitude based runners have an advantage in a mid distance race at altitude compared to sea level based runners.

2) Kenya has a doping problem more prevalent than America’s track and field athletes.

Maybe you are allergic to facts, but that doesn’t make these any less accurate.

Get over yourself

Tell us how Asbel Kiprop beat Nick Willis in 2008? True grit and determination?

shattered delusions wrote:

These are MY indisputable facts:

1) Altitude based runners have an advantage in a mid distance race at altitude compared to sea level based runners.

2) Kenya has a doping problem more prevalent than America’s track and field athletes.

Maybe you are allergic to facts, but that doesn’t make these any less accurate.

Skipped a word, bro.

I pretty much agree with that entire article, but I don't think it maps cleanly onto the letsrun discourse. The issue the article is talking about is ascribing morally superior explanations for the performances of white athletes while denying black athletes any agency when they perform similarly. That's not what happens here. Pretty much everyone who knows anything about distance running knows that Kenyan athletes work incredibly hard and are tough as nails. Nobody is suggesting that Kenyans vs. westerners is a battle of talent vs. work ethic and intelligence. The question is whether, despite having all of the same mental tools as westerners (and then some), Kenyans also have genetic advantages and whether they dope more than westerners. (It's significant that westerners are almost universally accused of doping once they reach a globally competitive level.)

If you want a more concrete example, look at the coverage of Kipchoge. Almost every profile of him, even in the mainstream, non-running media, focuses on his mental focus and discipline. Many of these profiles even specifically note that when he was tested by Nike, his physiological stats were not remotely off the charts, and it was impossible to pick him out as a champion. This is not the toxic discourse of the American football commentator who refers to every black athlete as "talented."

^ Saying Kenyans have a genetic advantage is implying they don’t have to work as hard. It’s exactly the same as that American football commentator.

Get these fools some Mises...

BROFESSOR wrote:

SDSU Aztec wrote:

Where does this come from? I'm liberal and believe every sport is 100% talent driven. To believe otherwise is an insult to anyone that trained or practiced hard, but never reached the top level. I trained as hard as I possibly could, but only managed a 14:50 5K.

Do you have a link to an article about liberals scoffing at talent?

First, leftist does not equal liberals. In the classical sense I am liberal too.

Second, ever heard of how leftist reacted to Charles Murray and his book The Bell Curve?

Lol. The only advantage Kenyans have is easy access to PEDs. It's clearly seen now as even though Europeans and N. Americans have very low interest in the marathon and there are very few folks willing to lose their muscle mass and become a 120 pound wimp in order to be a top marathoner, the few that do decide to run seriously (Rupp, Moen(a below average athlete in Europe)) can run top times and destroy top Kenyans.

Kenyans see the writing on the wall. There is more recent interest in Europe in the 1500 and their runners getting faster, so Kenyans are getting pushed out. They have to keep moving to the roads to avoid being shut out of prize money's in the DL races and World Champs/Olympics. It works for them because drug testing is more lax on the roads.

quite this nonsense wrote:

Who cares. We can and should end this by removing any non Europeans from Europe and shipping back to their respective holes and having a large separate state in North America for whites [...]

Perfect. Ship "non Europeans" out of Europe, but keep whites in the US? Makes total sense.