How good is a 80% age-graded time compared to other runners of your age and the general public?

Coevett wrote:

notafatty wrote:

I'm not sure there would be much difference in the age grade standards if everyone kept training post college or peak professional years. Here are the 40+ WR's.

100m: 9.93

200m: 20.64

400m: 46.96

800m: 1:48

1 mile: 3:54

5000m: 13:06

10,000m: 27:49

marathon: 2:08 (or possibly 2:03:59 if you think Geb is older than he says)

Yes, but doesn't it work both ways? For example the 800m WR is held by Anthony Whiteman who only started seriously running in his early 20s and thus likely never got close to his full potential in his prime (I think he ran 1:46 at 25 and 1:49 at 45).

Also, I have a sneaking suspicion that El G would even break 4 minutes for the mile as a Master. I'm not even sure he would have broken 3:54 in his prime without EPO and hgh.

Ok, you have any CONCLUSIVE evidence of your allegations? Let me save you some time, NO. That means your opinion on the matter is as stupid as the next conspiracy theorist . Not to mention libelous. And yes, before you ask, I have the bad habit of reporting libelous statements to the concerned parties (No this is not a threat) because people like you make any reasonable person, sick.

You just can't live with the fact that 2 Muslim kids outshined your 2 Briton's and have to put them down with just gossip.

You have proof? Bring it up to the athletic authorities.

You don't have proof? Shut your pie hole and put the money on the table for a lawsuit.

Very simple.

BTW, Coe and Ovette sucked bull testicles.

doctorj wrote:

BTW, Coe and Ovette sucked bull testicles.

Doc, why did you do that? Besides threatening legal/civil law actions you sounded somewhat reasonable. You are not suing because someone said ELG was dirty. Thousands have said the same thing. Do you walk around the hospital talking like that?

OP's question: I probably can do at least 75% age grade from 200m to 3000m. I am not light weight, Eventually VO2max formula will catch up to me past 3000m.

I think you are right.. the age graded time is the percentage of World record standard time for your age/your time. My question was if there is a correlation to percentile for 80% age graded time (how many percent of runners am I faster than or the general public). I am pretty sure I am top 1% among US 43 year old guys given the 70% overweight/obesity weight and the majority of non-runners but wondering if anyone knows how I stack up against runners (probably just average or below average compared to LetsRunners).

Many of the best masters runners I know didn't start running seriously until post college, sometimes not until their early 30's. I know plenty of guys in their mid 40's who still race and train seriously but are running no where near the the equivalent age grade times of their youth. With MLB pitchers they often talk about each pitcher having a limited number of bullets in their arm, and once they are used up that's it for them. I see the same thing with runners. Lots of the guys who have been grinding out the miles since freshman year of high school through college, post college, and now masters racing are just shot. I'm talking about 14 minute 5k guys in college not breaking 17 minutes as 45 year-olds. That's a 10% drop in their age grade %.

Just LOL at you freaking idiot. Good luck getting El G to launch a libel suit against me. First of all, he'd have to do the same to literally dozens of other posters here, not to mention the site owners for publishing it (in other words, you're threatening the site owners, as well as dozens of posters here). Secondly, he wouldn't have a hope of winning. A strong majority here believe that El G doped, and that is a defence against a libel charge. I'm stating a reasonably held opinion which the majority of people here, and especially those with any knowledge of athletics and the EPO era share. He had training partners, pacemakers, etc get busted. Not that he would dare to bring a court action in the first place. I'd be quite happy to go through with him as to his reasons in a court of law with global media attention as to why he retired at his peak just when EPO testing was being introduced, why he ran so much faster than anybody else clean when his slower countrymen were getting busted, the only other guys to run close to as fast as him have got busted, one of them only last month etc.

As for Cheouita, bring it on. He ran like a dog with his tail behind his legs rather than defend himself at an Australian tribunal. Again, I'll be quite happy explaining ,to a court of law with the world's press associations watching, all the circumstantial evidence I've collected regarding the possibility of him doping - such as incredible progression, links to Belgian doctors arrested for supplying peds, etc. Again, Aouita would not have a hope of winning a defamation case, not after running away from Australia after telling his athletes to take hgh, because 'it's the only way to win'.

Both of these individuals have been the subject of suspicions by thousands of people online over the years, and have never launched a defamation case, for obvious reasons. I'm not sure even El G has ever actually denied explicitly that he took drugs. EPO was legal for most of his career.

Unfortunately, you have libelled both Sebastian Coe, the head of the IAAF, and Steve Ovett with your clear insinuation that they used performance enhancing drugs. There is not a shred of even circumstantial evidence that either of them did so. Also, remember that I have been the subject of death threats here, so if an investigation is launched on my behalf to identify the perpetrators, I will demand that your IP is handed over too.

Bruin1996 wrote:

I think you are right.. the age graded time is the percentage of World record standard time for your age/your time. My question was if there is a correlation to percentile for 80% age graded time (how many percent of runners am I faster than or the general public). I am pretty sure I am top 1% among US 43 year old guys given the 70% overweight/obesity weight and the majority of non-runners but wondering if anyone knows how I stack up against runners (probably just average or below average compared to LetsRunners).

When I first started running late last year, I thought the age grade was a percentage of runners recording the time, rather than a percentage of how close it is to the age world record. It's a shame there isn't such a percentile type list, but I don't know how it would be possible to do, let alone for the average population. It's hard enough to agree on even what a 'runner' is. There are many threads of the type - 'how fast could the average American 50 year old man run a mile' on LetsRun. Most of the answers seem to me wildly optimistic on how fit the untrained person could be.

I think the only reasonable way to judge is the answer already given regarding 70% age grade being regional class, 80% national etc.

I found this interesting thread earlier today on an MMA forum asking for the best known mile and 5K times of famous fighters. Only a few fighters were mentioned, including Uriah Faber who according to his twitter has a 19K 5K pb. A lot of forum members who train MMA (which is a very cardio intensive sport) claim quite modest answers of 6 - 8 minute miles. I would guess this is typical for a fit young man who trains regularly in other sports. The average young American couldn't run a mile in under 12 minutes. If you are 42 and can run under 6 minutes you are probably faster than 99.99% of men your age.

Charlie wrote:

https://www.mastersrankings.com/rankings/

I appreciate the effort that goes into maintaining these lists, but the challenge with these lists is that they are compiled in large part by way of self-reporting (I know because I submitted a time myself 4 years ago), so you don't have anything near a comprehensive list since many people don't know about the list in the first place and some of those who know don't care. On top of that, this site in particular is limited to track events and does not include road race results. When it comes to road race results, figuring out where you stand has additional challenges. How does my Chicago Marathon time compare to another guy's NYC Marathon time given NYC is a tougher course, or another guy's St. George time given it is a gimmick downhill course? What about times on similar courses but in different weather conditions.

If you really want to see where you stack up, I think your best bet is to start showing up at some of the bigger and more prestigious races in the country and see where you place in your age group. Grandma's, CIM, Peachtree, Gate, Gasparilla, Cherry Blossom, the three world major marathons in the US, Beach to Beacon, Boilermaker, etc. It may not be any more definitive than age grading, but it will give you a real world sense and will be fun to do in any event.

Track and roads are apples and oranges for 5K and up. And for track, the lists are the only thing available, although there might be a random masters miler or under who pops into a local all comers meet, runs a >90% time and doesn't report it. But someone at that level is usually going to seek faster times and championship-type meets that do report.

For the roads the bigger races do have the faster times out there for people to see, but USATF masters road championships are often where people go. And if you want the deepest competition to really see who are top distance runners per age group then USATF Club XC is the race to watch. The caveat with that is that the true XC runners are going to stand out, and the performance level of marathoners might be under represented because they'll be doing Chicago, NYC, or CIM in the fall and would be on recovery mode.

In theory, that sounds right. In practice, I don't know if that actually happens.

I have never run Club XC champs or any masters road championships races. Instead, I go to the larger international caliber races (world majors) or well know national level races in my region (thus my reference to Gasparilla, Gate River Run (which I actually forgot to mention)), or in cities that I want to visit (Cherry Blossom, Houston Half). None of those are masters specific, so I know that I am missing out on facing off against at least a few of the top guys in my age group

Flying out to Spokane to run a cross country race just isn't going to happen for me. Flying out to California to run Carlsbad isn't either. I expect those top masters guys who all seem to live in southern California probably feel the same way about flying to Tallahassee or Kentucky or Tampa or Jacksonville or maybe even DC.

In sort, there is still probably no really effective way to get anything close to a comprehensive set of standings, but that does seem to be changing. Technology has made the running world a lot smaller, and I think that many of the top age groupers in the country have a sense of who the other top guys in their age group are, even if they do not race them regularly. Athlinks is probably only a beta version or two away from doing it.

Age-grading is obviously biased towards older people. Smoove hit the nail on the head. All I see are guys above 40 bragging about their AG times. It is MUCH more difficult to hit 80%+ AG time as someone under 40 than over 40.

I thought that too, then I converted my 42 and 46 year old 5000m and 5k times to open times and they were in line with my open times and she compared he age graded percentages against one another, they were similar enough (despite my open 5000 PR being from 1994 and using the 2015 tables).

I think they may get worse as you progress further and further up the age groups and the participant pool looks more and more different.

keep in mind that they change the AG tables every 5 years or so - so you can't compare yourself to marks set by you or anyone else if done on a different table.

Personally, I think that is a major flaw in the AG system - they should settle on a baseline 100% and leave it there forever. So someone scores 101%. So what?

Now the scores only work in 5 year windows. It defeats some of the purpose of AG.

the other answer is that in big city races 80% isn't going to medal in an age group. Check out NYRR team scoring races - on the mens side it takes 83 or better usually.

Women have it way easier on the tables - mid to high 70s will get the podium.

I'm around 80% AG. For me, in a small state, it means there's one guy in another city whose times I can't touch but who I've never been in the same race with, and then nobody within 5-15 minutes of me, depending on the race (and how narrowly the age groups are being sliced). 80% AG will occasionally get you an overall win in a local race, even some with 400 runners, and more often a podium place or close to it. For a competitive race like the HM at Grandma's, I'd be top 3-5 in my age group.

I find that the 80% AG level is a useful measuring stick of how competitive a race is. If the local timing company provides AG results, you can see pretty quickly how many people are hitting 80% or above. Typically it will be just 5-15 at the major regional race here, including some wicked fast senior women.

I'd like to see an AG system based on result percentiles rather than world records. If you had enough data from USATF certified, record-eligible courses, you could probably do it. Dump enough race results from, say, a 10-year period into the database, and you could say that your 18:00 minute 5K was in the 92nd percentile for 43-year olds, or whatever it is. It doesn't matter if you run slower on a hot day or a hilly course, because that would lower your AG% in the current system as well. If you were suddenly able to dump 10x the number of results into your database, it shouldn't affect your score much since you're working with percentiles. Getting enough data in all events to have reliable percentiles could take a while for some ages, though.

No way 80% is national class. I have recent AG times of 72% for 5k, 75% for two miles, and 80% for the mile. At 43 years old I am no where near national class.

I was mid to high 80% in college and just barely walked on to my team.

You need to be 90% to even sniff national class level.

Cool.. I ran my first sub-5 Mile (4:57) ever On the last repeat of a 6x1 Mile Repeats (400 Rec) track workout. My high school track PR was only a 5:02. I would like to participate in a track race to see how fast I can run a mile in a race situation.

88-90 can get you age group wins in most races throughout the country. Outside of Kevin Castille, there aren't too many guys in my 45-49 age group that are bettering 90% all that frequently and I know that 88-90% can be top among American in age groups in that range at most major races - I know for a fact that guys in that range have won masters titles or been top two Americans in the 40-44 or 45-49 age groups at the Chicago Marathon, NYC Marathon, Boston Marathon, Gate River Run/USATF 15k championships , Cherry Blossom. Houston Half, and Gasparilla.

So I think you can be national classes a masters runner at lower than 90, but that goes to my earlier point that it is so much thinner at the masters division than in the open division. High 80s to 90 for an open 5000m on the track is about 14:15-14:20 I think. I think that's a great time, but would you say that's national class? It won't get you anywhere D1 Nationals (it might make regionals) and wouldn't get you anywhere near USATF Nationals. But equivalent performances will have you on the age group podium in many of the best races in the country if you're in the 40-50 range.

notafatty wrote:

Many of the best masters runners I know didn't start running seriously until post college, sometimes not until their early 30's. I know plenty of guys in their mid 40's who still race and train seriously but are running no where near the the equivalent age grade times of their youth. With MLB pitchers they often talk about each pitcher having a limited number of bullets in their arm, and once they are used up that's it for them. I see the same thing with runners. Lots of the guys who have been grinding out the miles since freshman year of high school through college, post college, and now masters racing are just shot. I'm talking about 14 minute 5k guys in college not breaking 17 minutes as 45 year-olds. That's a 10% drop in their age grade %.

Except for Bernard Lagat!

His secret?

He takes a full month off in December every year to rest his body. That is what it takes. You have to take care of your body, as well as regenerate the body if you want to run at a high level for a long time.

Guys just pound their bodies away as teenagers and in there 20s, and then go through a huge regression in their 30s