Help me phrase my expectation to Runners and Parents that XC will train year-round

Three words: "Clock don't lie." The kids that run year round will fall to the wayside while those that train will experience dramatic improvement.

Another thing, consider going to a cross country camp in July or August. Reserve it for the most dedicated individuals. Though you can't require that they be around all year to compete in meets, you can pick who you want to go to camp. When Joe Blow asks why he didn't get to go, let him know that because he didn't train all winter, he isn't in adequate shape to go to a camp. Worked for me.

First I thought you were misguided. Now I think you are nuts and don’t have any understanding of your athletes or maybe kids at all.

You think lazy people run XC to work on their tan over the summer? How does that make any sense at all?

Clear Expectations wrote:

My concern is the ones who see XC as a way to work on their tan in the summer with no real interest in improving. .

Outted your self as a troll. Had me believing you at first.

The Hunter's have talked about this a bunch on this forum. Go read Joan talking about this, then adopt what she does. They do not require year round running. But they do set the expectation that kids need to train year round order to reach their genetic / god given potential.

You sound young and/or a new coach. Kids coming out and running June-Nov are def not working on their tan.

You have to coach the athletes you have. A motivated athlete will run year round if you just structure his training. An unmotivated athlete will run only when he feels like it, regardless of how much effort you put in.

OP is just a control freak who wants to dictate what his athletes can/can't do with their lives.

Well and thoughtfully stated. I guess I tried to simplify my coaching personal philosophy in xc and track, the whole young athlete thing being over my head. Tried to attract kids into the program w fun fotos of all the kids at practice and meets having good times, literally and otherwise, and always got results with fotos in local newspapers. Got their parents involved w social events. Individualized training and took volunteers to local road races. Staged pucnics and fun runs w local running clubs. Totally violated current restrictions about....yep!...training and coaching out of season. Sort of approached year round running indirectly: lots of opportunities to run, nutty coach who would run w you if invited (or not.) Made a sort of club for kids who enjoyed running and friendly competition. And made goal-setting about personal goals and healthy pride not team goals.

This thread may or may not have confirmed whether this "coach" has his athlete's best interests in mind, it HAS confirmed that he's a first rate A-hole. I wouldn't want to run for this guy during the season, much less off season.

I am not sure I understand all the hate for the OP.

He wants kids to train year-round, unless they are playing other sports. What successful program expects anything less? In football, we lifted weights year round. In basketball, a winter sport, we went to Team Camps over the summer. Soccer has Varisty Soccer, Club Soccer, Travel Soccer, Premier Soccer, ODP... gag.

To the OP: How about a compromise? Lightly encourage newbies to run year round once they are out there, but make it an expectation for 2nd-year (and on) runners: If you want to run a 3rd year, you are expected to train year round if not playing another sport.

This is a great example of why registered usernames might help the "cesspool" element of this site. Nearly every registered handle offered something constructive, and nearly every ugly comment came from an anonymous poster. Lotsa Keyboard Warriors... I wonder how well they do with face-to-face confrontation.

Not sure how registration helps. You have a registered username and are a bona fide clown.

Coming from an unregistered handle. Thanks for supporting my point.

theJeff wrote:

ChadBrad wrote:

Not sure how registration helps. You have a registered username and are a bona fide clown.

Coming from an unregistered handle. Thanks for supporting my point.

Maybe if you rode a unicycle to practice while juggling the kids would come out. Is that the advice you are looking for?

Clear Expectations wrote:

As I said, we have a large group of committed runners who are already training year-round. My concern is the ones who see XC as a way to work on their tan in the summer with no real interest in improving....I just don’t want kids to run for 7 months, sit around for 5, then complain to their friends that they get injured or don’t improve.

So you've got too many kids. That's your problem. And you want to lose the kids who don't care, right? But some of those kids who don't care are fast, and you don't want to lose them.

I guess my question is, is it really a burden to have extra kids who don't care? Do they take anything away from the program? I understand your thought process but imposing new rules doesn't seem like it's going to help you in the long run.

All you can do is teach the kids what running/sports can do for them and why being dedicated to that pursuit year-round is important.

Your focus should be How Do You Best Serve These Kids and Your Community.

Every time you think about kicking a kid off the team to prove some minor point as yourself those questions. As a coach you can reach a difficult kid when he's on your team, once he's gone.... he's gone. How does that help anyone? What does he learn? He learns that adults in power can be petty little b!tches about nonsense.

Your kids aren't future Olympians.

None of your kids are going to make a dime as a runner.

Very few will ever tie up a pair of running shoes once they graduate.

You aren't Alberto, or Tom Tellez, Wetmore, etc... get the F over yourself and serve your kids, your team and your community.

ChadBrad wrote:

theJeff wrote:

Coming from an unregistered handle. Thanks for supporting my point.

Maybe if you rode a unicycle to practice while juggling the kids would come out. Is that the advice you are looking for?

I am not looking for advice on how to get kids to come out... or how to be a clown... I think you have confused yourself :-)

I used to be an assistant coach in New Jersey with a team that had a crappy history. When I was there, it got turned around and won a league title over a bigger school and a historic regional power (then the school board cut winter track and the program began to suck again). So I think I know what you are trying to go after and achieve.

There is a lot of validity to what others are saying that it is only high school and that you really can't make kids be as motivated as you want them to be. And there is more to life than running and high school sports.

However, I think you can succeed without being obsessive or pushy on the kids. A couple of things that I observed that worked for us is to set clear expectations what it means to be on the team and to be a varsity letter winner. The head coach had a team contract which not only listed attendance requirements for practices and meets (also for summer practices with the NJSIAA begins to allow mandatory summer practices), but performance expectations to be awarded a varsity letter. It was a point system. So one way a kid could earn points by being in the top 7 scorers. Another way of getting points was reaching a certain time in the 5k. Another way to get points was overall improvement from the prior year (like a kid started as 24:00 but was now running 18:00). Another was to factor in fundraising events. So, almost any kid could get a varsity letter by working his butt off, not just merely being genetically gifted and a top runner. But also, if you didn't work, you weren't likely to get a varsity letter.

We also used a similar contract for winter and spring track for performance benchmarks in all the other events as well.

I would also add that you cannot really push kids, but you can push yourself as a coach. Kids will take notice if you are out there 5 days a week over the summer, fall, winter, and spring busting your butt for them. Tell them to run on their own or pass off the coaching responsibility to a field hockey coach collecting a spring stipend, well, I think you run the risk of them saying "he's not here year-round, why should I bust my butt year round?" I know that this issue is a lot more complex, but kids are often guilty of simple thinking.

Also, practice is rarely fun, but you can make being on the team fun. I think you can try to arrange extra activities throughout the year to encourage team bonding, whether it be a movie night, bowling night, pasta dinners, team trips, or a barbecue after a long run. Stuff like that.

Bit by bit the team will improve. And in reality, that is your best selling point. Pointing to successful varsity runners and saying "two years ago he was a scrawny freshman running 24:00, but he busted his butt year round. Now he is a varsity runner running a 16:50". They'll eventually see success with their own training and they will want to run year round.

Life isn't fair. Among younger teenagers, for every 2-3 who diligently train all year round, there will be one with lots of talent who can get fit in a few weeks, and race better than some of them. This is annoying to coaches and to committed kids, but it wins points at times. Over time, it will lessen.

You could adopt what happens in British universities: let the team elect a captain, let the captain have say in choosing teams for some of the smaller meets, ask them how they want to run training out of season, and support the willing ones. Basically let the students make the choices and "run a club". They will pretty quickly start to send the right signals to any kids that are messing around, and they will grow as people.

Read Maverick by Ricardo Semler.

theJeff wrote:

ChadBrad wrote:

Maybe if you rode a unicycle to practice while juggling the kids would come out. Is that the advice you are looking for?

I am not looking for advice on how to get kids to come out... or how to be a clown... I think you have confused yourself :-)

I’m not confused at all. I’m calling you a clown. I spite of your fancy registered name. You wear size 47 shoes.